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#1 Posted : 21 September 2005 10:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By renown Our fire extinguisher maintenance company is coming in for the annual inspection. They tell me that 4 (3 dry powder and 1 water) will require discharging as they are on the list for this year. If there is nothing wrong with the extinguisher on the inspection, is it necessary for the discharge to take place. They say it is recommended under the British Standard. My boss does not want them discharging if there is no need, and feels they are just adding to the huge cost of servicing. Is there any legislation which states the discharge MUST take place Many thanks in anticipation DGH
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#2 Posted : 21 September 2005 12:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By jackw. Hi, why don't you check the BS they are refering to?
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#3 Posted : 21 September 2005 12:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Alexander Duncan 5 Yearly. Discharge test and recharge all extinguishers, complete remaining items as per basic service ( label, instructions etc). When you contract out the servicing ensure you state that the extinguishers must be maintained in line with BS 5306-3:2003 (Code of Practice for the Inspection and Maintenance of Portable Fire Extinguishers).
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#4 Posted : 21 September 2005 12:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Talbot Discharges take place because of the nature of the equipment - unreliable. The cost of this discharge compared to the costs faced after a fire are insignificant. A non-functioning fire extinguisher can be very expensive in a fire situation, a working one used properly and swiftly can save thousands of pounds. British Standards are based on what is good for the users, not the suppliers. A little trust in them is a good thing.
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#5 Posted : 21 September 2005 12:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley Maintaining fire equipment to the relevant BS is almost certainly mentioned as a requirement somewhere in the small print of your insurance policy. As has been said, the cost versus a fire is small. Finding out you have invalidated your insurance policy as well???? Fred
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#6 Posted : 21 September 2005 13:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gareth Bryan The BS from memory does require that a certain percentage to be tested by discharge. the thing to do is to watch them whilst they do it to make sure that they don't just take them away and sell them on !
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#7 Posted : 21 September 2005 14:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Hallett Good afternoon all Please be aware that the BSEN3 has no standing in law and does not purport to meet any legal requirements - read the foreword in every BS if you don't believe me. It is simply "A" standard which is verifiable. I'm not saying that it isn't good guidance, simply that it is ONLY guidance. If you don't wish to have extinguishers discharged - then don't! Your relevant RA will provide the grounds for that decision. The only legal requirement other than ensuring that you have sufficient extinguishers to meet your FRA needs and that everyone is suitably trained is to ensure that you comply with the Transportable Pressure Vessels/Equipment Part of the ADR. This where you will find the prescribed pressure testing frequencies and other requirements for fire extinguishers 'cos they are Transportable Pressure Vessels. Those who test them have other extensive duties but that's not relevant here. Frank Hallett
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#8 Posted : 21 September 2005 15:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By TBC The discharge test is a kind of 'pressure test' before the ten year full pressure test. Many companies take advantage of this by incorporating the extinguishers into a refresher training exercise for use by Fire Marshalls etc. It will give valuable hands on experience, but if your company is so tight for cash don't bother.
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#9 Posted : 21 September 2005 15:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Perhaps you could utilise this discharge as an impromptu fire extinguisher training event. That way your marshalls gain familiarity, you get a free training event and you are still complying with the BS.
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#10 Posted : 21 September 2005 16:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barbaros Ertergral I am very impressed by the answers in this forum and have gained much new understanding of health and safety by reading here; but i am now also a little confused because of the last 3 on this thread. Please help me to understand what is being said here. Could someone please explain how discharging a fire extinguisher could be considered as a test and what will it test? Also, it appears that there is a contradiction about the extinguisher standard - is it legal or simply a standard? Barbaros
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#11 Posted : 21 September 2005 16:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Barbaros, The British Standard is just that, a national standard. However, following a regional, national or international standard is normally considered as evidence that you have been complying with a legal requirement, unless you can put forward a better argument in a UK court of law. So, in practice the individual should either be following the standard or retaining the services of a good lawyer. The former is usually cheaper in the UK. As to the discharge test, I guess it proves that the extinguisher works, but as I wasn't on the committee that decided on the tests I can't give you the reasoning.
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#12 Posted : 21 September 2005 16:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By TBC The discharge test will check the bits/workings of the extinguisher. The valves, trigger, deposit tubes etc ensuring that no blockages are present and that in the case of dry powder - no caking has occurred. It is also testing to a working pressure when activated which shows that the structure is still sound. The ten year pressure test is pass or fail. Fail will show leaks or blow it up. Pass it can be safely recharged for a further period.
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#13 Posted : 22 September 2005 10:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Talbot We may have missed something, and I confess to needing help to know if it still applies. On some fire certificates there is a requirement to follow the BS. The bit I need help on is whether such clauses are legal requirement or not now.
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#14 Posted : 22 September 2005 10:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By ian milne This is possibly a detailed response for others to build on. From memory, BS 5306 Parts 1, 2, 3 to infinity etc was the manufacturing and service standard and was always the standard that everyone used as best practice. While I do accept that british standards are just guidance, they follow the same course as most health & safety law i.e. SOFARP, and where there is no other better alternative to follow, this is the best practice. This stnadrd is accepted by all manufacturers, suppliers, insurers and H&SE. When (BS) EN 3 was first released during 1992, it was initially believed that this would replace BS5306 but it never happened. Therefore BS 5306 (I think it was part 3 for extinguisher servicing, but you can look into it). Now, discharge tests; from memory and all can correct me here, there are usually two types of extinguisher design types (stored pressure where the cylinder is always pressurised and has a gauge on the front and cartridge operated where a CO2 or NO2 cylinder releases pressure into the body of the extinguisher). When an extinguisher is used, this places the extinguisher and components under pressure therefore can be an interim pressure test (but beware that if your extinguisher has rust or faults these can explode in front of you). The 5 yearly pressure test is often only on the body only and a test date is stamped onto the extinguisher body head, is is recommended. As always, you have to try and trust that the people servicing your equipment are not ripping you off. Get a quote from them to do this tets and get a couple of quotes from difefrent suppliers for a new extinguisher and compare carefully. Trust this helps (or adds more for thinking). Ian
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#15 Posted : 22 September 2005 21:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By rjhills I have dealt with Chubb Fire for a long number of years, as they cover all the country. To my recollection, we were never asked to discharge an extinguisher as part of the maintenance check. If one extinguisher was lacking after the check, a free replacement was always supplied. Suggest you check with alternative suppliers, and also try to explain to boss that extinguishers are quite important for your organisation. I sympathise with cost cutting being used in matters of safety, (which is not normally an issue in other issues such as quality etc).
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#16 Posted : 22 September 2005 21:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Al.. BS5306-3:2003 (Code of practice for the inspection and maintenance of portable fire extinguishers) states that water, foam and powder extinguishers should be discharged every five years; the body should be examined internally for corrosion, dents, cuts, gouges or lining damage; examination should be undertaken of all closures for thread wear, damage and corrosion as applicable and the extinguisher, if in good condition , should then be returned to operational condition. As a code of practice, the British Standard takes the form of guidance and recommendations and it is not a specification. However it represents good practice and I suggest that it would be very difficult indeed to find grounds for ignoring it. If you do not allow your service company to undertake the discharge test and injury were to result while someone were operating the extinguisher (for example, if the extinguisher exploded as a result of internal corrosion), your company and the service company could be liable to enforcement action.
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#17 Posted : 23 September 2005 10:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By JohnH Try this link from Hampshire FRS http://www.hantsfire.gov.../serviceorders/6-55.html
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#18 Posted : 23 September 2005 13:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By TBC Chubb don't give freebies - you'll pay one way or another.
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