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Posted By maria26
Hi,
I am very new to this and require some advice. With our Health and Safety Manager recently departed, I have been given the task of taking over for the time being.
It has become clear that we need to take gas measurements to gain a rough idea of our exposure levels. I have had two reps in to see me, one from Anachem for Gastec and one for Drager.
Has anyone used these systems and can therefore help me by giving some advice on which one to use.
Thank you Maria
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Posted By rjhills
I suggest that you source a competent person who may be able to check your levels for you, as you are in the unenviable position of being thrown in at the deep end.
Contact Drager,who will be able to help you to this end, and leave you with a record of checks done, levels highlighted, actions required etc.
I have dealt with them although a long time ago, and they were excellent.
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Posted By Smiff
Hi Maria,
what sort of gasses are we talking about, and do they arise as a result of a process or environmental factors? It's difficult to advise without a bit more info.
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Posted By maria26
Yes, sorry. We use chemicals as part of our process and I am concerned at the level of exposure to employees. I want to use this quick instant reading method to determine levels initially. I have since discovered that Anachem have a TWA direct reading Gastec tube which may be more accurate. Then by looking at those levels we can think about maybe purchasing a COSHH compliant personal sampling system. And of course depending on exposure try to reduce levels.
Thank you
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Posted By Smurfer
Why not just bite the bullet to start with and get in a suitably qualified/experienced occupational hygienist to do the monitoring for you - you will get results which are directly comparable with WELs, using HSE approved methods (MDHS,NIOSH, etc)and you won't need to worry about purchasing sampling equipment (not cheap), calibrating stuff, training the user, etc, etc.
If you tell us where you are we may be able to recommend someone local(ish).
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Posted By Smiff
Smurfer makes a good point, worth considering. As a process engineer myself, I'd guess your process guys and their suppliers may have industry specific information. Do you have LEV, and is this approporiately check and maintained in accordance with COSHH. What is the process, and what fumes do you expect?
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Posted By maria26
You can buy a kit for the same cost as having someone in can't you? As well as geting the training as well?
Cost is an issue. We are looking at various solvents. Very little extraction.
Thank you,
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Posted By Smurfer
OK, let's presume you can buy a pump for the cost of having an occ hygienist on site for one day. This will enable you to take one sample at a time. Could be a very long job if you want to take more than a few samples and observe the activities at the same time. Bear in mind just one sample may not be statistically accurate. Add in the palaver of getting hold of the right sorbent tubes for the chemicals of concern, together with organising analysis with a lab... Don't you have better things to be doing with your time if the H&S Manager has just left? Oh, drager/gastec tubes aren't cheap either if you need to buy a load of different packs for different chemicals...
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Posted By maria26
If you buy the kit surely you can take as many samples as you like? When you like? Responding to an incident straight away. You come accross as fairly
patronising by the way. Charcoal tubes are cheap, as are Gastec. Analysis for solvents is reasonable too!
I was asking about the compasisons of Gastec and Drager as they are simular products. Thank you for your time, but it does not answer my question.
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Posted By Barry Cooper
Maria6
From my experience, the detector tubes for the Gastec and Drager equipment are only + or - 25% accurate so they will only give you an indication that you have a problem, but then you may need to have a proper survey done
Barry
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear All,
Both draeger tubes and gastec tubes do the job that they do designed to do, very well. The differences between them are miniscule and really revolve around which interfering chemicals they can deal with.
Most tubes today have an error range of +/- 15%. But, when you consider that occupational hygienists wouldn't consider differences between individual sampling results less than 50%-100% to be of any real importance; an error of 15% is of no great deal. The error in a normal sampling train alone, invariably ends up around 10%. An error of 15% on 100 ppm is +/- 15 ppm. If you get a result of 85 ppm with a substance with a WEL of 100 ppm, only a fool would say that exposure to the substance was under control.
The benefits of detector tubes are that they are cheap, easy to use and you can take a large number of measurements.
The key to taking short term measurements to compare against long term standards is to break the day into a number of sampling units. Eg if the day is 480 minutes and the time required to take a sample is 10 minutes; then there are 480/10 sampling periods. Number the periods and use a random sampling table or the random sample generator on a computer to generate 10-15 numbers. Take samples during these periods and plot the results using excel to get a distribution plot. You can then calculate the geometric mean and standard deviation. This will give you meaningful results that can be compared directly against the WEL.
If you need further details send me an email.
Adrian Watson
FFOH Registered Occupational Hygienist.
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Posted By maria26
Adrian,
Thank you very much indeed. We simply want to identfy hazards and see what problems we may or may not have. If it seems we do have problems, obviously further action will be taken. I have today taken delivery of a Gastec system, which was about £260 including 50 sampling tubes. No training required, as the use is simple. If this highlights any problems then we will get an expert in.
Once again Adrian thank you. Your advice is reassuring.
Maria
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Posted By NWG1
Hi Maria
I also had the same issue around a year ago, and decided to do initial sampling with tubes and get a consultant in once yearly to do a full assessment. The tubes work very well and are relatively cheap, my colleague used Drager but has now moved to Gastec because of the next day delivery offered.
However the one note I would add, I had the consultant come in to do the assessment and they charged me a fortune! This year I am looking into purchasing a pump kit for myself as it does work out cheaper - Pump kit - £800 with filters etc, consultant cost me the same but I have no kit out of it. Once I buy my kit I can then do the assessments for myself and only have to pay the cheap analysis cost - better for me and cheaper year on year!!!
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Posted By Adrian Watson
The only words of caution I give is if you are carrying out a long-term sampling strategy get an occupational hygienist to help you plan it and assist you with the interpretation of results.
If you don't there is a danger that if you ever get into court you won't be able to defend the results. I personally have dealt with many cases where people have taken samples properly, but they were meaningless because they're not taken on any rational basis. As such they were ripped apart in court.
Use experts where you need their expertise but get them to train you to do the bits that you can do properly, so you can keep down costs!
Regards Adrian
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