Posted By bigwhistle
I would suggest if they are signed off by their doctor then that should be enough. However with the way things are going it might be worth shopping them to crimestoppers!

Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Rhys

The focus of your initial enquiry was 'some new guidelines regarding the assessment of these clients' i.e. those allegedly 'too ill' to attend a disciplinary hearing.

Your second entry is correct in so far as it goes: an OH nurse (or other professional with relevant occupational knowledge, e.g. chartered occupational psychologist qualified to assess work-related stress), can offer an opinion with greater weight to that of a G.P. in some circumstances.

Bear in mind that a standard doctor's certificate authorises an employee to claim Statutory Sick Pay and does not have the status of a medical diagnosis. That would come within the domain of a consultant in a particular specialist medical field.

You may be in the area where there is no absolutely categorical 'final opinion', as
a. very few g.p's are able and willing to explicitly diagnose any form of 'mental illness' in a way that could lead them to be subpoened to justify it in an ET or county court
b. very, very, very few psychiatrists are trained in occupational medicine or inclined to opine about this domain - 'it's bad enough have to stand by my decisions in a coronere's court!' is that my friendly consultant psychiatrist tells me!.

As a Chartered Occupational psychologist,I spent a fair bit of time last year drafting guidelines for assessment of psychological fitness for work and submitted them to the BPS Professsional Practices Board. They gave them the thumbs up without comment and circulated them for comment; by the time of the next meeting, a new chair of the Board decided he should sit on them and do nothing for some months before deciding to pass the draft to the Division of Occupational Psychology who are now doing nothing about them. (That's called professional inertia under the guise of 'social responsibility'.)

Bottom line, Rhys? I respectfully encourage you to make up your own mind and record your judgement on the evidence available in each case, with suitable qualifications about the scope of your assessment and the basis of your opinion. Then it's up to your HR people to earn their money by deciding to advise management whether the employee should be disciplined (or dismissed) in his/her absence.

So, the guideline is fairly simple: be clear, calm, courageous courteous and kind.

Posted By David P. Johnson
Bear in mind the need to comply with the Human Rights Act - right to a fair trial, and to consider the implications that the DDA may have.

Things I would be looking to ensure would include:

Is the person of sound enough mind to understand the proceedings? Are the proceedings likely to jeopardise progress in recovery, or cause and detriment to the ill health? Would it be unreasonable to expect them to attend under the circumstances of their illness? Could any adjustments to the proceedings make the burden of attendance easier?

The person concerned does not necessarily need to attend, they can be given the option of having a representative (work colleague, relative, solicitor) attend on their behalf.

Hope this helps.

DJ

Posted By John Watson
My experience from a previous life with a major High Street Bank was that once serious disciplinary action was brought everyone (almost to a man/woman) went off sick with stress. The banks view (backed up by lawyers) was that they could hold any disciplinary hearing they liked wether or not the staff member was present or not. They beleived that the "off sick" card was being played to halt the action, which it did not. A fair few went to Industrial tribunal, the bank won more than they lost.

Posted By Kieran J Duignan
John

.... the guidance from Herbert Smith that you refer to is useful up to the point where it waffles about 'stress'. Their guidance to 'investigate internally the possible cuases of the alleged stress with the employee's manager and consider any DDA adjustments specifically to address the cause of the stress' is very wide of the mark, on these grounds
a. as research by ASB lawyers recently indicated, 80% of HR managers acknowledge that they don't have a process for doing this
b. more often than not, frayed relationships between management and staff are at the root of stress to BOTH sides
c. some level of stress is part of life - the trouble is that individual vulnerability differs enormously and varies over time.
d. they're saying nothing more than the HSC Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 already prescribe and the HSE
Guidelines on Managing Work-related Stress 2004 add to.

It was precisely because there's been so much waffle about stress that I (and another chartered occupational psychologist) have been trying to persuade the British Psychological Society to issue a protocol on assessing fitness for work (DESPITE some levels of stress).

The OH professional remains left to her/his own devices, in reality - not least in solicitor's own offices!

Posted By bigwhistle
No you are spot on hence my josh about crimestoppers!

Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Neat cultural perspective, John.

And how does the accompanying music go?