Posted By Frank Hallett
Having read all the earlier responses, I'm not all that sure that I really want to lift the petticoat on my efforts. I will say that many of the previous comments and observations have struck a chord with my experience [before the luxury of a 2 part diploma and "Choice"].

I was substantially into my course when I realised thatI was, metaphorically speaking, half way down with no soft landing [or exit strategy] in the plan. I re-took 2 topics, one of them 3 times; before I got my "Pass" and went on to bore for Europe on h&s and how to do it.

I accepted then that it wasn't easy for all of the reasons cited above, and some that haven't been. I wanted to do it - for me, my ego and to do some good with.

My underlying feeling to those who worry about the pass-rate at a personal level is to wonder how badly they want it.

However, going back to the original point, there is an extremely uneasy and illogical dichotomy about trying to convince the purse-string holders that a regular annual fail rate of substantial proportions indicates a good standard - it just cannot be made sense out of. Perhaps there are far more like me than I thought.

Frank Hallett

Posted By Giles Davis
There has been some really interesting and informed comments made above and I would just like to try to add to them.

When I started in H&S the Gen Cert seemed extremely difficult to me, being one of those poor 'approaching middle age' persons who hadn't taken an exam since leaving school at 16. During the first few lessons our class was introduced to Human Behaviour and Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs. The pinnacle of this model of human behaviour is ‘self actualisation’…..what do you want to become?….how far can you go?..............how good are you? To me this model was the inspiration to carry on with NEBOSH and complete Dip2 (and also undertake an MSc – currently in progress).

I concur with what has been written above in that you will only get out of the NEBOSH courses what you put in. Yes, they are difficult but then nothing that is easy in life is worth doing (in my opinion). Completing Dip2 was an enormous challenge and has made a huge impact on my life and my work, I feel more confident, I write better reports, letters & documents, I communicate better with people and I understand people better.

If you really want to pass these exams then you can. I put in 428 hours (times and dates logged) of home study for Dip2 and passed first time. If I can pass first time having left school with 1 ‘O’ level (in Geology) then most other people should be able to……….if they really have the desire!!.

It was the same for all the rest of us, NEBOSH speak, too much information to absorb in too little time…………..sorry, but you just have to make the time and make the effort.

Regards

Giles

Posted By J Knight
For the benefit of RobT and others who think people with doubts are in favour of dumbing down; I for one am not. I also take issue with the assumption that you get out what you put in. This doesn't reflect my experience of a NEBOSH Dip2 course; my feeling is that the outcome of the exams could not have been predicted on performance in the classroom or in assignment. I do not accept that such a wide disparity has no underlying structural cause. The people I knew who failed worked hard, were good at the assignments and had all passed Part 1. The exam results seemed to be distributed almost at random.

Any form of moderation is a sieve; you take the fine stuff and reject the thick inedible bits. My feeling is that NEBOSH isn't entirely sieving for the right things. It doesn't need to be easier, just more consistent; I mean, in a previous life one of my colleagues with a Law degree (evidently a thicko then with no aptitude for academic study) managed to fail his part 2 twice. I still use some of the systems and paperwork he designed; he was good at H&S, but it took him three tries to pass NEBOSH,

John

John

Posted By Brett Day

What IOSH listening to it's members!!

No comment!

Posted By Dave Wilson
So someone wants somethinmg for nothing, I will bet that the Safety Officers (what a crap name!) who complain are the ones who cant pass!

Why bother with the nebosh dip let them carry on with the cert!!!

Remember this is a degree standard exam and the questions are set by CMIOSH people I believe, so if you want this status then you have to pass the entrance exam, or one of them anyway!!

Posted By IT
Don't believe anyone wants anything for nothing, are there not Certificate holders with CMIOSH due to grandfather rights etc, would this fit with the something for nothing analogy.

After reading all these posts the over whelming issue is the inconsistent approach to grading and subjects. to those skeptics out there when people pay money to obtain credentials and there is a low pass rate it is in my view not the student but the instructor/lecturer that fails perhaps there needs to be a review of the standard of the lecturers that are supposed to mentor and deliver a subject the fact the pass rate is so low is and should be a concern to all not just some, what happens when the course becomes obsolete due to this?

Must agree with Brett start talking legalistic arguments in the workplace and people switch off (they want answers that’s why they employee us) not triple language exams with comma's dots etc in the right place.

Although NEBOSH/IOSH are not interlinked there should be no doubt that consultation on the curriculum is there between the organisations.

So when the Employers can't get CMIOSH because there is only 4-6000 thousand ,where do they turn to and they will ,strategic planning never hurt anyone .

Posted By Hazel Harvey
IOSH obviously looks at the syllabus of the NEBOSH Diploma to see if it meets IOSH accreditation requirements. These accreditation requirments are based on the level4 national standards in Occupational Health and Safety Practice,specified by ENTO. This is in fact the process for all of the 50+ organisations that now offer OSH qualifications that are on the IOSH accreditation list. In terms of the marking of the NEBOSH qualification this is soley a matter for NEBOSH, as far as IOSH is concerned as long as the procedures are sound then we will assume that the scheme is satisfactory for professional levels. QCA, the regulating body for qualfications in England (and the other UK awarding bodies)are responsible for this aspect of any of the awarding bodies they accredit such as NEBOSH and BSC Awards.

At higher professional levels NEBOSH has not been the main supplier of qualifications in OSH for some time now, it only amounted to 17% of all new members achieving the old style corporate membership of IOSH last year. So dis-satisfaction has clearly been expressed by the large proportion of recently qualified IOSH members.
As an IOSH representative on the NEBOSH advisory panel I continually bring up this issue of poor failure rates on behalf of IOSH members and potential members. I think that the message is getting across and that efforts are being made to make the question setting and marking more transparent and better for candidates. I think it is a case of watch this space.

However, 83% of recently joined IOSH members chose to undertake another type of qualification, so you do not have to undertake the NEBOSH Diploma. For people with lots of experience the NVQ route allows you to develop and expand on this to gain a recognised qualification, it is worth considering but it isn't an easy ride as some people seem to think.For those who are more academically inclined the HE sector now offers a range of qualifications from Professional Diploma to MSc level.

Just a point of fact, by the end of 2007 there will be at least 14,000 Chartered members of IOSH, it was 6000 in the first batch to receive this. There will be approximately 2000 MIOSH completing CPD every 6 months for the next 2 years as people complete their CPD requirements.

Hazel Harvey
Director of Professional Affairs

Posted By IT
Thank you for a concise response Hazel.

There is no justification to spend money on the NEBOSH DIPLOMA then?

Since members are moving away from it anyway by choice and IOSH have already raised the issue with NEBOSH in the consultative forums.

Good job....

Posted By Hazel Harvey
I think my response is from a more generic position regarding qualifications. I definately think there is justification in spending money on qualifications, which one you choose is a matter for an individual and their sponsoring employer. In some cases an employer may insist on a NEBOSH qualification (some still do - it is their choice)in which case it is definately worth spending the money. If you have a wider range of choice though have a look at what else is available.
In terms of qualification levelling. All qualifications now accepted by IOSH have to be at degree level. The NEBOSH, BSCAwards and University Professional Diplomas have degree level content, although not to the breadth of an actual degree.

Posted By fats van den raad
All I can say is you should have tried the NEBOSH diploma BEFORE it even became part 1 and part 2.... now that was tough!!!!

Posted By J Knight
Fats, haven't seen you on this forum in donkey's years. My ex-boss failed the Law module of the old Diploma 3 times before finally getting it (not the same person as referred to above),

John

Posted By IT
Jonathan,

Stop being so practical, agree it is time IOSH went into competition and started delivery of appropriate standards for safety (and Health)

Reasonable courses with outcomes that benefit the profession and uphold a standard of delivery and achievement, rather than relying on the quality of the lecturer or dots and dashes.

Posted By DW
I don't think it is about justifying spending money on the course. It should be about justifying investing in the individual. I am currently undertaking the National Dip and am finding it quite strenuous, but, with time and dedication I believe that it can be passed.

So really, it should be about the dedication of the individual, and support from an employer as it does take a lot of time, effort.

Posted By fats van den raad
John Knight
Yep... haven't been around here for a while...
I know a LOT of seasoned, experienced and very good safet pro's that failed the old Dip.... and yes... most of the time it was the law module that scuppered them. I was one of the lucky ones... I got the right questions on the right day, I'll admit that But then I did work damn hard as well... maybe it's true what Gary Player said... the harder you work, the luckier you get!!

Don't just get stuck in a choice between NVQ and NEBOSH. There are other (and in my opinion, better) options as well, e.g the different University Diplomas (Nottingham Trent, Portsmouth etc.) are of an extremely high standard,exam and assignment based, but with far better pass rates

Posted By Gary Rushby
Hi

I have just finished my NEBOSH general cert and am hoping for a good merit or even a distinction. I find the question posted here intersting as i will have to sponsor myself and am wondering if the material will be ALOT harder and if the end result is really worth the time and money. I did enjoy the cert (to a degree) so the motivation is personel achievment rather than expecting the qualification just because i paid for it.
It would be grat to know how did other people found it?