Posted By Emma Forbes
Just leaving my office and passed a site where contractors have been working on building a couple of houses (they've been a nightmare from the start). Passed when the slaters were in, three guys sitting on top of the roof watching the world go round, one guy in the bucket of the JCB throwing up tiles to another guy balanced on top of the roof laying the slates.

Called the firm and got told by the contracts manager that they have been issued with their PPE and have signed for it and that was that. He sounded so cheesed off to have been disturbed by the likes of me highlighting that his acrobatic workers might not be so lucky one day.

Days like this are so soul destroying.

Posted By Jerry Lucey
I understand where you are coming from Emma, having worked onsite for a Project Supervisor Construction Stage for the past couple of years and having individuals come to site from the kind of environment you describe and the difficulty of trying to integrate them into a work environment with a positive safety culture.

It was encouraging though to see that a safety culture can be instilled into a group of workers or contractor quite easily by winning over one supervisor, foreman or a few individuals.

Posted By Merv Newman
I have been quite used to tilers and roofers working with edge protection nowadays. Even on private houses. Once the investment is made it costs virtually nothing to transfer it to the next building.

Roofers and gutterers are acknowledged as being the most dangerous occupations in France, paying a 17% premium (based on salaries paid) to social security. For comparison, as a service industry, we pay a 1% premium)

I do have a nice photo in the archives of a young lad walking along the top beam of a house (sorry, don't know the technical terms) sloping beams had been laid up to this horizontal beam so that tiles could later be laid. Some of the sloping beams were a bit long so he was going along chopping them down with his chain saw. Not daft, he shut off the chain saw before moving forward. This meant that each time he wanted to cut off the top of a beam he had to pull on the starter string. (10 cm wide beam, top of a house) No edge protection, no fall arrest. Nothing.

Anyone want a copy (lovely scenic background) please send me an e-mail. (me-too requests on this thread will not be answered. It's too complicated)

Merv

Posted By Red Ones
Frank - I don't ask, I just take the pictures!

Last time I did that the guys denied it was them - I subsequently had them removed from site (I had the advantage of controlling the site though) It was a gang of scaffolders, the only ones that the scaffold firm employed. It left the firm with a problem. £30,000 worth of scaffolding on site and no-one to dismantle it. Every time the company said they wanted to strike the scaffold I made sure I was on site. - 6 weeks this went on!!!

Posted By Frank Hallett
I was trying to be nice in my earlier response - not the norme at all!

In light of a couple of other responses, perhaps we need an "out-ofIOSH" blog -style site on which to display the obvious wealth of "how to do it wrong" piccies that so many of us have.

Incidentally, it works better if you can find out who the miscreants insurers are and send to them.

Frank Hallett

Posted By warderic
I have been involved in health and safety management for over 20 years and I am never suprised at the perception of people. I have never been involved with the constructione site health and safety but would imagine it is a complete nightmare. One of my silly hobbies is when passing roadwork repairs on the highway, is to try and spot someone who is using a cutting tool i.e. to slice a paving slab in half, who is wearing eye protection. In the 3 years I have been carrying out this observation excercise I have many many times seen these tools being used, but I have never ever seen an operative wearing eye protection. I sometimes wonder if an on the spot fine would improve things?

Eric

Posted By Bill Bircham
Hi All,

I’ve followed this thread with interest. It’s clear that many of us in the OSH game come across examples all the time of things that shouldn’t be happening, often go along with best of intentions, get told were to go and then what do we do? Put up our complaints here.

How about these for two radical suggestions?

Firstly, can we move the training we all get to become OSH managers / advisors etc along to include not only chapter and verse on which bits of kit / law is being abused / ignored (our staple fare in most training) but also to include how to deliver messages, influence people in authority etc, without the ‘’ . . . but it’s the law . . . . . ‘’ being our backstop.

I am thinking here about NVQ / Diploma / BSc / MSc etc etc entry routes to CMIOSH. By ensuring these elements are included, not only will we be recognised as the font of all knowledge, but also people who have the skills necessary to be effective in management circles.

Secondly, I have no doubt that somewhere along the way, the ridiculous things we see people doing are within the official reach of readers of this forum or other IOSH Members.

Is there not some place we can shove up details of where when etc, including company names (not individuals)? Proactive members of IOSH can then do a quick search for their own company name / worksite, hoping that nothing comes up, but if it does, they can get involved if appropriate.

Some may feel uncomfortable with these suggestions, but if the HSE can post a list of notices / prosecutions (which I’m sure we all look at when vetting Contractors)

Now the disclaimer before someone thinks I’m accusing them of being no good at influencing etc. This is becoming a more and more necessary skill in our roles. My point tries to illustrate that perhaps this needs to be reflected within our competencies. It is in no way any reflection any individual, just an observation of the differences between those who seem the get things to happen and those who don’t

A final point – Merry Christmas, Happy New Year with many more to follow!

Regards

Bill

Posted By Frank Hallett
The last few responses, though extremely worthy, have missed the point - there is no real ability to actually exert any influence over the miscreants as those who care, and/or know what should be done, simply don't get even a toehold in these organisations!

Enforcement? CDM? MHSW?

Only happen when someone gets hurt and it can't be hidden.

Extremely cynical and despairing of any real curtailment of the "cowboys" who appear to be the construction equvalent of the "robber cattle baron" rather than the "rustlers".

Frank Hallett

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Hopefully keeping with the thread, I suggested a few years ago that the HSE should set up a 'hotline' for employees or the public, where they could report any unsafe acts or conditions confidentially. Many of those who are aware of unsafe practices are not inclined for various reasons to report these matters. Whilst it is not a perfect solution it would serve a better purpose than many other interventions that I could or dare not mention.

Regards

Ray