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Posted By el nino
All,
The following is all hypothetical of course.....
A fork lift driver turns up for his morning shift. He shows obvious signs of being tired ( drooling, head to one side, walking into walls etc ). His Manager knows that the driver moonlights driving for another firm during the evenings / nights. The driver admits this. The Manager stops the driver from driving his truck as he fears the driver could cause an accident.
The personnel department tell the Manager that he can't do this. The driver can not be removed from his duties until an accident occurs.
Comments? Has the world gone mad?
El Nino
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Posted By Mark Bywater
El Nino,
I would ask under what policy the HR dept is acting as any good H&S manager would stop him from driving, document the reasons and discuss these with the man and his manager as the risk is "forseeable".
Maybe a future plan of action regarding his "fitness to drive" would be necessary?
If he is not competent to carry out his tasks he shouldn't be allowed to and given a different task or sent home. The debate about payment if sent home is one for our esteemed HR colleagues to wrestle with.
Regards,
Mark
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Posted By Mint
I agree with Mark.
If the driver cannot even walk properly without bumping into walls then there is a foreseeable chance that he will have an accident whilst driving.
He should not be allowed to drive. Waiting until after an accident has occured is a silly attitude to take and your HR dep't are foolish to suggest such a thing. If that attitude were to prevail in your organisation then why bother with RA's and SWP's? Just bumble along until something bad happens and then sort it out afterwards? I think not.
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Posted By Descarte
I suppose if you are to send him home then would you not also get him a taxi and not let him drive?
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Posted By TBC
This guy is driving a lethal weapon and HR wants to wait to have an accident. It could be a death! Agree with the above, if he is not fit he should not be there - anywhere in your workplace. He could walk into another FLT and place others at risk that way.
Most companies have a part written into employee's terms and conditions about other jobs. Have HR missed this out or have they given permission for this guy to do some other job?
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
A simple response to HR would be to enlighten them that good proactive health and safety management is to prevent an accident from happening by risk control - not wait for an accident to happen!
Ray
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Posted By Gary L
I would also remind the Manager in charge of Personnel of section 37 of HSW74 - consent, conivance or negligence of any director or manager
Gary
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Posted By Gary IMD(UK)
How many people hit 'Obstacles' with their HR dept?
Here's a 'tongue in cheek' response that always makes me laugh!
Human & Natural
Many natural resources are not renewable.
Conserve natural resources by destroying Human Resources instead!
Take care!
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Arguably current research shows that operating a vehicle whilst tired (in many cases) is now regarded as being more dangerous than under influence of alcohol, what is you organisations policy of employees working under the influence of alcohol?
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Posted By el nino
Little Nino is under strict instruction not to let me touch a drop in the office before 2 o'clock ( joke! ).
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Posted By The toecap
I reckon HS law over rules employment law. Write into his contract that he shouldn't do any other paid work.
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Posted By Fred Pratley
Sorry I can't give you the exact reference, but there has already been 1 successful prosecution of a courier firm who employed a man, who crashed and was killed in a road accident on his day off. The fine (as I recall) was quite substantial.
It seems the company let their man come in early and knew he did not leave until late, and consequently fell asleep at the wheel as a result.
If you are letting someone not fit for work, and you know this, and it is therefore reasonably foreseeable that an accident will result, tell the personell man he will go to court and loose, probably in a big way.
Then remind him he could be personally held responsible as well as the company for knowingly permitting an unsafe act to continue.
Regards Fred
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Posted By Saracen11
Hi el nino, interesting thoughts of your management.
"Until an accident occurs..."
Hit 'em as hard as you can with this one...
'Bolton MBC v. Malrod Installations 1993'
Regards
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Posted By steven bentham
I like the 'Liars Poster Solution'; why not put a poster up
"Watch out for this driver for he is too tired to work safely and Personnel say we have to wait for an accident before we send him home"
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Posted By Joel Frorath
I agree, it has nothing to do with HR (don't they have anything else to do) this is clearly a safety issue and if the guy isn't fit to do his job be it through tiredness or anything else he should not be allowed to work. Refer your Human Resources Dept to Section Two of the Health and Safety at Work Act. They may also wish to speak to him about his so called moonlighting because this is clearly a conflict of interest which is an HR issue, but maybe that would be too PC to take that route, sorry but you do get a bit cynical sometimes and clearly your HR dept should have a better judgement call than this
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Posted By Lesley
Surely HR has a duty of care to protect others from this mans actions/behaviour?
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Posted By Steve Kirk
This is clearly nothing to do with HR, in it's simplest terms this man is a hazard who is putting others and himself at risk, this risk can be eliminatd with very little effort and at little expense, therefore you are legaly obliged to do so.
Just do it before somebody gets hurt and deal with the political correctness in HR later.
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Posted By Merv Newman
What do HR say about the person who comes to work in a similar condition and stinks of alcohol ?
Or maybe under the influence of drugs ?
REM SELF : Save the booze and the weed for Fridays and Saturdays, Yeah ?
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Posted By dbh
Surely the EWTD (European Working Time Directive) which limits staff to a 48hr week, might come into the domain of HR?
It also deals, I believe with the issue of those with 2nd jobs.
Send this issue back to HR alongside the results of a risk assessment entitled "Falling asleep on FLT due to working excessive hours" completed by said manager and said self.
And when reasoned arguement fails, start shouting.
Cheers.
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