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Posted By Paul Price
Bit off topic but could one of you wise persons out there please help with puzzle. Our HR dept wants photo copies of personal documents ie: passport driving license P60 birth certificate etc. One of our older employees is refusing to comply ( has ben paying NI PAYE for 35 years been in the forces) He is wary of identity theft and believes he has no need to prove his nationality. He is willing to show passport etc: but not let anyone take copies. Has he a legal right to refuse? If so on what grounds ? Thanks in advance
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Posted By The toecap
What can the company do about it?
Why do the company want all this? Surely all that is needed is the NI number and driving licenses. What on earth do they want all the other stuff for.And if he refuses what can they do about it unless they are a security form amd it is policy.
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Posted By ian milne
Most companies use these as genuine documents for proof and this is based on premise of 'if the government issued it'. As you know this is not true (some people have two licences or two passports for travelling). Also, various new laws are in place to reduce money laundering (if you buy house, set up a bank acct etc) and some require these documents to be submitted incl Nat.Insurance.
I know from experience that staff had not 'updated the company with personal information on their circumstances' because they did not want anyone to know (one had lost his licence, others moved address and phone numbers for next of kin were incorrect). Also with the input of staff from abroad, a company requires to satisfy itself that they are here legitimately or they face customs/tax intervention.
As always, how far do you wish to take it?
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Posted By Helen Horton
Hi Can't remember where I saw this but I have just read somewhere that it is in fact illegal to photocopy passports and driving licences. I think it was when I was applying for a CRB check as I lecture at the local college and someone had to sign to say they had seen them but was warned not to photocopy them - so far as I remember Home Office Regulations were cited. So it may be that you can look but not copy anyway and perhaps your "old boy" is right. If I can find it I'll let you know but you may want to check the Home Office website to see if it is mentioned there. Won't have this problem when we all have ID cards - but then again who wants to be stopped in the street for an identity check?
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Posted By Paul Price
Still a bit confused here I have read this on the passport office web site.
3.The British Passport (the Passport) is subject to Crown copyright protection under section 163 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. This means that it may not lawfully be reproduced without the prior permission of the Controller of HMSO, an official who as Queen’s Printer and Queen’s Printer for Scotland manages Crown copyright on behalf of Her Majesty under the terms of Letters Patent. OPSI’s Information Policy Division administers Crown copyright on behalf of the Controller.
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Posted By J Knight
There's a difference between 'reproduction' of a passport and just copying the ID bit to keep as a record surely? Isn't it to do with intent? If there is no intention (and no possibility 'cos its just a little bit of it) of passing the copy off as a passport is the home Office really going to care?
John
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Posted By Mark Talbot
It would seem perfectly reasonable to me for a senior person to record the fact that they have seen the relevant documents and that they are in order. This should be recorded and signed.
Should there be a need to review the documents periodically, he should be required to bring them in periodically.
All a copy represents is a short-cut. Both a copy and a testament from a responsible person would be adequate evidence.
I agree with the bloke but I often supply copies because it is easier than arguing the point.
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Posted By Alan Hoskins
Think it would be more sensible - and better security - to examine the original. A copy can quite easily be 'doctored'.
Alan
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Paul
If the H R folk who have asked for the documents have not specified the uses and the safeguards involved, it may be wisest to recommend that they do and that they explicitly state how their request complies with the Data Protection Act.
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Posted By Paul Devlin
Hi Paul
It would be beneficial if we knew what industry your in to make an informed comment on your problem.
I am in government employ shall we say and although I signed the OSA, I certainly dont provide all that your HR has asked for, I have to occasionally produce my driving licence for inspection but that is it.
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Posted By Jack Knife
Your Company has no right to demand these documents unless he is contractually obliged. If it were me, I'd tell them politely, "No".
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Posted By Nick House
I'll try to find out how this applies to existing employees, but I know for fact that all NEW employees now have to prove that they are eligible to work in the UK/ EU. To do this, they have to provide certain items of ID. These should then be copied and kept in the person's personnel file.
Failure by a company to do this is an offence, and as such can leave them open to prosecution.
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
whats the safety issue here or have i missed the point???
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Posted By Nick House
You're right - it's not really a H&S issue, but if someone knows the answer, surely it can't hurt to respond?
Also, I've now found out that the legislation states that it is the employers responsibility to know whether their employees are eligible to work in the UK/ EU at all times during their employment.
It is a little farcical at times - as in this case, but say you have an employee who is in the country on a visa. The visa expires and the employer is somehow unaware. Do you think the employee is going to voluntarily cough to it if they can't get it renewed?
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Posted By Merv Newman
As Paul said "It's a bit off topic". But he is looking for help from a group who may have knowledge of his problem. And he found it.
And it allows us to have a bit of a knowledge/experience swank outside of our normal (extremely high level of) expertise. (note carefully the spelling)
Acceptable post for me.
Merv
(I'm just passing my time here tonight waiting for my secretary to send back a corrected contract) I asked her to give me "un coup de main avec une correction sérieuse". If you have to check that in the French-English dictionary then there may be a few raised eyebrows. Unfortunately (fortunately ?) Corrine is a tri-athlete. So is her boyfriend AND her two brothers. Hands off.)
Merv (sorry if I have wasted your time)
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Posted By Paul Price
Many thanks to you all .I really do appreciate the input you have given me .As I said its off topic but it seems that the workforce seem to confide in me rather than HR ( surprise surprise)so I will relay the information back to the concerned party.
Regards Paul
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