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#1 Posted : 05 April 2006 11:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Robertson-Böber
I don't have the HSE Event Guide with me right now and I'm after finding what the recommend sq m is per person for a standing event.

AJRB
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#2 Posted : 05 April 2006 12:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike Herbert
I think it depends on your number of fire exits and venue capacity to start with but i believe it is 0.5m standing or 1m dancin'.
I guess you have to assess the 'risk' of dancing.
have fun
mike
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#3 Posted : 05 April 2006 14:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Malcolm Fryer
Andrew

Briefly

0.3 M2 per person standing
0.5 M2 per person seated

I would be happy to discuss this more with you as it is an area of particular interest to me. Malcolm

More detail follows

From HSG 195

Venue capacity/occupant capacity

85 The capacity of a venue is generally dependent upon the available space for people and the number of emergency exits. The latter is the subject of a calculation involving the appropriate evacuation rate, ie width of available exit space and appropriate evacuation route.
86 Some of the site will be taken up by structures which will be unoccupied. The rest of the site will need to be considered in calculating occupant capacity even though a direct view of the entertainment may not be possible for all locations. If there are any areas where the audience does not have a reasonable view of the performance, this space should be deducted from the available area or a lesser density used in calculations. Areas which could afford partial or total cover to the audience in the event of inclement weather should be identified and the effects of audience migration to these areas considered.
87 In venues where seating is provided, the major part of the occupant capacity will be the lesser of the two figures determined by the number of seats and exit provision However, in other cases a calculation based on the acceptable occupant density should be carried out. Generally, 0.5 m2 of available floor space per person is used for outdoor music events.
88 Double-check the preliminary occupant capacity calculation and exit requirements once all initial infrastructure requirements and facilities are in place on the site design. Further detailed information on occupant capacities can be found in the chapter on Fire safety and in the publication Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises.
Exit requirements

89 The exit numbers for a venue depend directly on the occupant capacity and the appropriate evacuation time for the type of structure. The publications Guide to safety at sports grounds and Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises give details which relate to stadia and fixed entertainment premises - they also provide sample calculations.
87 In venues where seating is provided, the major part of the occupant capacity will be the lesser of the two figures determined by the number of seats and exit provision However, in other cases a calculation based on the acceptable occupant density should be carried out. Generally, 0.5 m2 of available floor space per person is used for outdoor music events.
88 Double-check the preliminary occupant capacity calculation and exit requirements once all initial infrastructure requirements and facilities are in place on the site design. Further detailed information on occupant capacities can be found in the chapter on Fire safety and in the publication Guide to fire precautions in existing places of entertainment and like premises.

124Means of escape is the structural means whereby a safe route is provided for people to travel from any point in a building or structure to a place of safety without assistance. Place of safety is a place in which a person is no longer in danger from fire. The occupant capacity is the maximum number of people who can be safely accommodated at the venue. In the case of standing areas at longer events there is a need to take into account 'sitting down' space for the audience and freedom of movement for access to toilets and refreshment facilities. It is essential to agree the occupant capacity with the local authority and fire authority as early as possible as the means of escape arrangements are dependent on this figure. In areas where seating is provided, the major part of the occupant capacity will be determined by the number of seats available. However, in other cases, a calculation will need to be made and this is based on each person occupying an area of 0.5 m2. The maximum number of people who can be accommodated can therefore be calculated by dividing the total area available to the audience (in m2) by 0.5. Example: an outdoor site measuring 100 x 50 m with all areas available to the audience could accommodate a maximum of 10 000 people (ie 100 x 50 m = 5000 m2 divided by 0.5 = 10 000). However, the local or fire authority may decide that for certain events the occupant capacity will need to be reduced.

If you look at Guide to Fire Precautions in Existing Places of Entertainment and Like Premises see the following link this will back up my suggestion of 0.3 M2 per person standing

http://www.cheshirefire....ng%20note%20-%20GN38.doc


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#4 Posted : 05 April 2006 15:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike Herbert
Without getting too hung up on numbers i would say that the 0.5m2 figure for seated is a bit mean. Given the size and shape of adults these days. The average chair would indeed take this space but leave no room for legs.
Just a thought?
Thanks for link to cheshire fire though - v useful.
As a slight aside. I did try and get hold of a copy of the yellow guide but was told it is out of print with no plans to reprint it until RRO comes into force. Would anyone know if this is still the case?
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#5 Posted : 05 April 2006 16:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Malcolm Fryer
Mike

Glad you enjoyed the link. As to space I would personally suggest that 0.45 M2 is just about the minimum for seating but by using 0.5 you allow for aisles and boy it does make the arithmetic a lot easier :-)

Compare this with the 1989 CAA airworthiness notice (AN64), which by its title mandates "Minimum Space for Seated Passengers." It applies to all transport-category aircraft carrying 20 or more passengers.

With all seats in the upright position, AN64 lays out three minimum measurements:

Dimension A: Minimum seat pitch of 26 inches, as measured from the seatback cushion to the seat in front.

Dimension B: Minimum distance of 7 inches from the front edge of the seat cushion to the seat in front.

Dimension C: Minimum vertical space of 3 inches as measured from the front edge of the seat cushion to the backside of the seat in front.

Now that’s what I call tight!!

Malcolm
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#6 Posted : 17 April 2006 11:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By David A Cooper
Andrew, there is some good research by Dr John Fruin on this. Also the Rail Safety Authority have just issued some information on crowd control. Let me know where I can send you soem information. David.
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