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Posted By Jan Moore
Since the smoking ban has been enforced, I have been asked a good question by a teacher. He smokes and during school break times - one in the morning and one in the afternoon, he would like to disappear of site to have a fag. He has been forbidden to leave not only the school grounds but the staffroom by an ex-smoker head teacher! Is this a breach of his rights as a smoker!!??
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Posted By Saracen11
Hi Jan, is this a Health and Safety issue or a HR issue in diguise?
Regards
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Surely, smoking is a matter of choice; rights don't come in to it.
Paul
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Posted By steven bentham
He does not have rights as a smoker.
He has an obligation to undertake the work of his employer.
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Posted By Calum Clark
I don't think smoking itself is the issue here with regards to the legality of this. The questions are:
Can the headmaster keep his staff on site over break time (terms and conditions of contract)?
Is he stopping only one member of staff leaving the site (or ths staff room) because he dispproves of the activity being underaken(discrimination)?
This is therefore an HR issue and I'd leave them to sort it out. However, I'd suggest confining someone to the staff room is going a bit far.
Calum
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Posted By Fornhelper
If he's on an unpaid break he can leave the premises...if not he's not entitled to leave premises. Not a H & S issue ...down to conditions of contract / HR.
FH
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Posted By Kate Dervan
Surely he can leave the site on his lunch break? in which case he can have a ciggie in his car. In the factory setting i would have a job on my hands "making" employees stay onsite during their lunch.
Having said all that well done to the teacher who manages to smoke just 2 a day, but its probably more hastle than enjoyment at this stage - he should give up and go for a walk instead - 'round the staff room only of course!
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Posted By Rob T
The question is - is anyone else allowed to leave the staff room at break times (is this a Borstal by any chance?). If others are allowed to then the teacher is a victim of bullying and harrassment. Sometimes headteachers forget that the staff aren't children! I'll bet that the contract of employment doesn't say that teachers are confined to barracks sorry I meant staffroom at breaktimes.
I do find it very irksome though that some people pipe up (pun intended) and automatically agree with anything to do with anti smoking. They've got what they wanted (banning cigarettes in pubs) but still can't leave it alone when smokers aren't bothering anyone. Do remember though that contrary to any rubbish from ASH or the BMA, not one death certificate in the UK has ever been issued which gives the cause of death as passive smoking. Anyone who wants to argue this please do so with evidence of a death certificate being issued. I'm sorry but I can't supply evidence to back up my point that not one has been issued because...... wait for it........ not one has been issued!!
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Posted By RobAnybody
Jan,
Your colleague may have a claim for harassment as pointed out before, there may also be a claim for constructive dismissal if it gets that far. Definately a HR prob I'm afraid.
Rob T,
You are quite right about death certs not having passive smoking as a cause fo death. The reason being? It is not a recognised cause.
However...
Happy Easter,
Rob
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Posted By Merv Newman
Fine, I'm a pipe smoker. (2 ounces a week).
I really really cannot get my head around the passive smoking thing. How many people die from deeply, directly inhaling smoke from a cigarette ? Lots. Too many. Now, how many people die from inhaling the exhaled smoke, (don't say it's unhygienic, we inhale everybodies exhaled breath all day long) at a much, much lower concentration ?
Having dealt for years with LD50/LC50, TLV and TLC I just don't get it. And I know that there is research to show it one way and research to show it the other way. Read 'em all. Well, some of them.
Maybe the smoke is affecting my brain. Except that there is no evidence to indicate that tobacco smoking affects the IQ. Is there ?
Merv greying wolf
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Posted By RobAnybody
Merv,
I think the issue over passive smoking would only "probably" have greatest effect for those who work for prolonged periods in an atmosphere that has a heavy concentration of tobacco smoke (pubs, clubs etc.). It is these people we would aim to protect, just as we would someone who is exposed to other fume & dust hazards.
For the majority of us who don't smoke it may or may not have an effect. I'm probably gonna get verbaly duffed now for not being harsh enough on you. Bad smoker! There.
By the way, is 2 ounces a week a lot?
Happy Easter & I'm off home now.
Rob.
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Posted By Jan Moore
Can't actually speak with the guy as the school has 'broken up' for Easter. I'm assuming he is chain smoking to get the nicotine in before getting back to work!
He muttered that other staff left the school grounds during breaktime so I agree with most that there is an element of discrimnation. One would think the easiest option would be to say he has to see his granny at the school gates!
This is certainly a HR issue but the H & S element of stress at work is creeping in here!
Jan
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Posted By J Knight
Probably get duffed up by Rob T for this, but Merv, there is some evidence that smoking affects the brain, both directly and indirectly as smoking may have some role in cva related dementia. Mind you, I read recently that running solo can damage the brain, so they've got you coming and going.
All that aside, and reverting to the original thread; can I just add my voice to the howls of protest at the way this bloke is being treated? I may not be a smoker, and would prefer it if people didn't smoke around me, but the way he is being treated is not fair and sounds discriminatory to me; he should get advice,
John
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