Posted By Merv Newman Well, yes and no. 20 years ago H&S was a totally unknown subject with absolutely no public profile. (ok there were a few exceptions) Before being employed by Du Pont (don't cry) I had had three jobs. Only in the last (a 1 000 employee paper mill and at least one LTI per week) was there a "safety officer" whom I never met during the 3 years I was there. (if anyone wants horror stories about paper mills in the '60s then let me know) Most that I met later were "end of career" people : No good for anything else ? He can be safety officer then. Trying to get a manager to do something, or to stop doing something for H&S reasons was unheard of. Today we do have a public profile and people do talk about H&S. OK, a lot of that is negative but I feel that is mostly because of reaction against untrained, unexperienced jobsworths who just go over the top and deliver often uninformed opinions as if they were gospel. And yes, some people take advantage "can't do that. It's elfansafety" Or (as for your airline) "It'll cost more because of elfansafety" (why don't you write to the company for an explanation) Well, the "can't do that" people may be in the right. Discuss it with them a try to find a safer, more practical way. If the airline doesn't come up with a good explanation then start an anti-them blog. And I read Jeremy Clarkson every week. Just to see what he is saying about H&S. I'm not interested in the cars. I've got a Rover 75. (don't cry) When he does write about H&S I don't think I have ever disagreed with him. (is there a position for honorary chancellor of IOSH ?) So, despite the actual negative opinion of H&S I am absolutely delighted when I see the current level of interest, comment and discussion. And we are part of a recognised profession, now with chartered status. On a par with architects, accountants, engineers and, and, (can't think of any others) And there is a solid career path with well defined reasons and means of keeping up to date. (do accountants have CPD ?) I've been in this trade for 30 years. 17 years as a consultant. Without even trying to calculate I can perhaps say that I have helped companies to avoid maybe 1 000 LTIs. And, if you go with Heinrich or Bird, maybe I have helped to avoid 30 major injuries or fatalities. THAT is job satisfaction. Despite what they say about us. Merv Greying Wolf Hey. It's sunday afternoon. Garden dug ready for carrots, cabbage and broccoli. Planted the lettuce out. Sunday lunch over (Lamb with shallots, peas, beans and potatoes, a white bordeaux. (maybe that's heresy but we opened it yesterday to go with the asparagus and shrimps))Now it's raining. Wife is watching Charlie Dimmock on TV Or is she watching that bloke Titchmarsh ?. Nothing better left to do than log on to IOSH chat show. Though I suppose I could go back to Bolitho.

Posted By Merv Newman As I have said before, unexperienced, untrained, unconscious jobsworths who talk in the name of H&S and give us all a bad name. Can we not ask IOSH PR to react to EACH of these stories by at least questioning the qualifications/experience of the person responsible for the B****cks they are advising ? Merv Greying wolf and increasingly fed up with Nigel's good contacts with government but zero with journalists. Now there's provacative. Talk to me Nigel.

Posted By Joe Holland "As I have said before, unexperienced, untrained, unconscious jobsworths who talk in the name of H&S and give us all a bad name" - tell me about it! Last 2 Sites that I have worked on employed safety advisors (belonging to the relevant companies). A check list and no knowledge of what they were doing. Latest Site that I am working on and the Principal Contractor has stated that they don't know or understand what we do, so has sent our Risk Assessments and Method Statements to a consultancey to see if we are right? basically work at height, use of hand held power tools, use of FLT and crane. If they cannot read a Risk Assessment then they should not be in the position of Principal Contractor. They say what we are doing is dangerous because they don't understand what we do, they want us to change the way we work which will introduce uncontrollable hazards. They have a list of our competencies but we can't ask for theirs. We see H&S personnel in Local Authorities being blamed for gross stupidity; cutting down horse chestnut trees, hand and eye protection for children playing conkers, egg boxes not being used in schools for craft work in case they carry bacteria. If these persons are acredited then they should be re-assessed. The fear of litegation is overriding common sense. The HSE need to act and act now. In the current climate we may as well as hand over our responsibilities to every untrained, unqualified jobsworth who is approaching retirement!

Posted By Stupendous Man Please remember that many of these 'bonkers conkers' stories and 'jobsworths' simply reflect the fact that we live in a society where it is considered acceptable to make frivolous, vexatious and fraudaulent claims. Yes, it is easy to give 'elf n safety' as a reason for saying 'no'. The sad reality is that being more reasonable (or reasoned) will involve spending time and money on gaining competent advice - in todays competitive environment many companies or organisations can't afford to do this. Remember that the most difficult and time consuming thing to do is change attitudes. And it is a huge change in attitudes that we need in society at the moment. So, keep plugging away - every little bit helps in the long run.

Posted By J Knight Part of my problem with the 'bonkers conkers' stories is to do with where they are published. Its nearly always the Daily Mail/Express/News International, and I can't accept these organs as unbiased reporters of social trends. They have an agenda, and its not one I have any sympathy with. Many of the 'stories' reported are distorted (witness the £30K to change a lightbulb - it was no such thing) or taken out of context. And since the media has power with no responsibility, their distortions are never acknowledged. I wouldn't deny that there's such a thing as 'elfnsafety', and I don't like it very much either, but why do some newspapers keep obsessively bumping their gums about it? Is it really a plague threatening the very fabric of our civilisation? Are there perhaps more important things happening in the world for Mr Angry to get worked up about? Let's deconstruct the headlines - 'Somebody does/says something a bit silly because they don't know as much as they think' - Gosh, big news, John

Posted By J Knight Suspect its got more to do with cleaning spilt paint off bus floors than any 'hazards' presented by paint, John