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Posted By Nerd
I've got a pile of COSHH assessments to do on my desk that I've been ignoring for weeks. I hate them.
Looking at the MSDS' today I've noticed some don't give much detail about the ingredients, they will say things like Non-Ionic Surfactant or Sequestrant or Buffer Solution, which I understand can be any of a number of chemicals.
Without knowing the exact chemicals involved can I trust the risk phrases/ hazards identified etc on the MSDS and the recommended control measures?
Is this done just to protect the companies product and can I force them to tell me exactly what the product is made of?
Thanks
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Yes you can trust them as they have been through the CHIP process and all the info they are legally obliged, in the interests of safety, to give should be on the MSDS
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt
Dear Nerd
Hurdle one.
Non disclosure agreements allow you to get at what is really in the mixture. They are a great way of putting off a COSHH assessment for months while your seperate legal people arrange bloodoaths etc to protect their generic brand of "soapy suds".
I tend to look at the CHIP label and look at the ingredients and if their are any obvious imbalances like hexavalent chromium coming over as "Irritant" then dig a bit deeper. It doesn't always do exactly what it says on the tin!
Most MSDS will give you a rough idea of the main chemical components and their rough percentages in the mixture, this should be enough to make a valid assessment.
CAS numbes may be quoted on the form which are unique ID numbers for chemicals. There is a site on the web where you can search by number but I've lost the address, sorry.
Hurdle two.
Who's using how much for what.
Flippin eck it contains 0.15% Acetic acid (vinegar). Ok on your chips not nice in your eyes or inhaling it for 8 hrs steady.
HSE COSHH essentials have a step by step website for doing coshh assessments which you might find useful.
You could always wait for xmas and hope santa does them for you but I hear he's more into ergonomics these days.
Jeff
P.S. Santa if you're reading I've bin weally weally good this year can I have 18 million and one in my organisation for Xmas.
P.P.S. And a power ranger SPD
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Posted By Kate Graham
This is normal. Ask yourself, would knowing the exact chemical formulas of the ingredients really help you to do a better assessment ? It's the risks you need to know about, not the chemistry.
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Posted By Descarte
That and individual chemical risks may differ once "mixed" in a new product, I would go for the MSDS looking at the risk phrases, hazards, oxposure limits, PPE require (If provided) handling and spillage procedures. It should all be on there
Des
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Posted By gham
You cannot trust MSDS'.
There are many out there that are inaccurate. If you look had enough you will find many errors in many sheets
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Posted By ME
You should generally be able to trust MSDS's as long as they are in the correct UK format. yes there are exceptions but thr majority of reputable suppliers wil supply adequate MSDS's. If you have any doubts then can always use the net to search for other MSDS's or relevant info. There comes a point when you have to say that you've done all that is reasonably practicable to ensure that you have the correct information.
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Posted By AJM
Here is my little story again;
When I did a full audit of all chemicals and associated Data sheets at my last company.
I identfied a couple that were classed as non hazardous originally but were irritant when i cross checked and got them updated. I also went into it that much when cross referencing the MSDS with the EH40 that some exposure limits were not even mentioned on the sheets so i had to pull the suplier up on that too, which they ended up amending and re-sending to all their customers, they did thank me though lol.
Although i suppose most will be correct It would be good practice to do an audit of all chemicals and associated MSDS sheets at set intervals as this can do no harm and is always prudent.
Alan
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Posted By garyh
You really have to trust the suppliers (generally speaking they should be the experts, as they are the ones who make the product!)
I would only query it if it obviously doesn't comply (eg with the 16 section format etc)
The supplier should make sure they comply with CHIP regs etc and supply sufficient info. You don't need a chemical breakdown if the material is properly classified. In addition, for preparations or complex substances there could be hundreds of chemical components. I used to manage company MSDS's and used to get requests (it has to be sais mainly from Germany!) from eejits insisting that we list EVERY HAZARDOUS COMPONENT!! when the regs don't actually require this. (For instance some materials of Petroleum or Coal Tar origin have many many components so the overall "material" has been rigorously classified).
I mention this because it is easy to jump in and start making policy decisions in this area without thinking it through.........
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Posted By Philby'
garyh
....may be there is a problem with 'what' the regs require then...I'm certainly not saying its necessary in all cases but there are a few 'common' products out there which you wonder if the manufacturers are a little economic in their descriptions.
I remember two instances, some years ago now, where duraglit and jeyes fluid were being used, different times and places, and the users were both overcome...when I looked back at the MSDS's both said low hazard and use in a ventilated area....when I looked at the constituants, and again this may well have changed, both had compounds which were brain degenerative.
Also, when you look at how you use metal polishes, cleaning silver pieces in a museum setting, the user is usually bent over polishing with a couple of lint free cloths, freely breathing in...couldn't do this outside and an LEV, I was informed, 'was going overboard...and...would get in the way'...
As an aside to this, and apologies for bringing this up again....
having worked in the toiletries/personal hygene world for a while, I note that lots of roll ons, sprays, hair colourants etc say 'NOT TESTED on ANIMALS'....fine, but that doesn't mean to say that the constituants haven't!
Philby'
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
And don't forget that over 40% of MSDSs have been shown to be inaccurate!
Paul
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Posted By Chris Packham
I believe I have already pointed out on other occasions that the SDS is designed to comply with CHIP. The COSHH ACoP actually points out that the Approved Supply List, which is the basis for most SDS, may not be adequate for COSHH. In fact the Health and Safety at Work Act provides the basic requirement for information from the supplier to allow the product to be used safely for the purpose for which it was supplied.
You need to go back to your suppliers and point this out to them and request them to provide the additional information so that they are complying with the Act.
If you need more on this just e-mail me direct and I will let you have a document with more details on this.
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
If you let the manufacturers know how you want to use their product and what levels of materials you need to be able to prove are in the product, I am sure that they will be able to come-up with an appropriate sds that fulfills your needs.
It may not be accurate....but that's another story.
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