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Posted By Chrisinwood
Well its a friday night and here i am still working does it never stop for a practitioner?!!
Right, my query is, and any advice would be much appreciated, under the WAH Regs, my company is considering putting a permit system in place for use of step ladders. They have also stated that steps are NOT to be used other than when a tower cannot be used due to the size of the room.
My thoughts (which im sure are wrong) on this are :
a) a permit to work system is adopted for high risk tasks, confined spaces etc, and i dont consider using a step ladder high risk (if used properly). Instead should a check list be issued to all staff who wish to use a step ladder on site which has genreally the same detail, no check list completed no work.
b) there are times when the works are low height but a tower could be erected, however the works are 5-10 mins per area ie re.basic wire pulling as an example. The time it would take to keep coming down a tower and moving it would significantly lengthen the work which would in turn cost more, where as a step ladder would be quicker, could the cost to risk ratio be applied in this instance?
Any views or experiance on the above would be greatly appreciated, hope you all have a great weekend
Rgds
Chris
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Posted By RP
I would not think that a permit system would be required to use a step ladder, but any person using access equipment must be trained. Ladders of all types should be inspected at reqular intervals by a competent person and before and after use by the user.
HSE also say (on their website) that you do not need to do a risk assessment for every occaison where a ladder is to be used, but there must exist a safe system of work that would cover most situations.
A permit system is intended for work where the risks are so great that other measures need to be taken before work can be done, such as, check for gases before entering a confined space.
Ensure that your system of work is sound as a pound and all users, supervisors and managers are appropriatly trained...
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Posted By Merv Newman
"Permits to Work" should not be banalised. They are, as said, for defined high risk activities which require strict adherence to a procedure.
And I can't think, for the moment, of a PTW system that allows one or more people to work without strict surveillance to ensure that the procedure IS followed. (and to summon aid if required) Maybe I'm wrong cos it's the weekend.
Training on correct placing and use and awareness or risks and precautions coupled with a (a number of ?) generic RAs, with a bit of dynamic risk assessment on the spot by the intervenant would seem reasonable.
I do have somewhere a very poor photo (indoors, poor flash) of someone on the very top "step" of a 2-M step ladder. In a high traffic (FLT) area with no signing or protection.
Fortunately it was a contractor so the site H&S person was able to be quite forceful as she explained the error of his ways.
I say "fortunately" because on that site a similar act by an employee would have required involvement of their management and probable disciplinary action.
Merv
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Posted By Merv Newman
Additional thoughts, which I hope are helpful.
Simply try to avoid the phrase "permit to work". A phrase such as "Authorisation to use step ladder by demonstrably trained person in defined circumstances. ref : RA n° 1234" (bit long winded but I'm sure you understand) might satisfy your management.
Worth a try ?
Merv
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Posted By David Tilsley-Curtis
Chris
while most of the main points have been covered by the previous respondants regarding the permits system, there is a possible halfway house between your two current alternatives. If your current use is a step ladder, this would suggest a single person operation. Changing this to a small tower would increase this to a two person operation to keep the erection process safe, I'm not sure if your initial increase in time took this into account. There are a couple of variations of the access tower on the market which do one require a single person, but you will not generally get more than the one person on as a user. I can send you some details of various types if it would be of help.
David
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
When people say they do not like podiums because they have to keep stepping down to move them I often wonder how they managed to move stepladders - by getting of them first I would hope. Still one has to wonder.
That said why do we get so uptight about using permits wherever we want to ensure that particular risks are properly managed. The permit does not have to be complex, and could be called an authorisation if you wish, but it at least makes people stop and think of what they are doing. It often prevents the operative who thinks he is only 3 steps off the floor from forgetting about the 4 floor drop over the atrium handrails 150mm to his right.
Bob
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