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Posted By Merv Newman
This is a spin off from the thread "at what level should a safety manager be ?" I started to type it in there but decided to start a new thread.
Should, in certain circumstances (industry/site size/risk level), CSP be a legally required qualification for at least the senior H&S person ?
This would NOT preclude those with other qualification levels from occupying posts where the risk level is lower (even down to the "unqualified but competent" eg 20 person office facility where the administration manager has H&S responsibilities as part of their administrative role)
Now the "central register" bit. What is the parity between CSP and equivalent levels in other (don't mention their names) safety organisations. Is a central Register of Safety Practitionners possible ? Or even doable ? Or even wantable ?
So it comes down to two questions :
1. Do we want IOSH to rule the world ?
or
2. Are we prepared to share it with other non-IOSH but probably equally qualified/experienced/competent persons ?
Actually, I suppose there is a third question in there : Do we care ?
Discuss
Merv
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Posted By Stupendous Man
Interesting question Merv.
I'm all for option 2 - If IOSH and IOSH members think that their organisation is so good, they should have nothing to fear from co-operating with other H&S organisation in this type of scheme.
I hope that this thread receives the constructive and considered responses that it deserves and doesn't degenerate into the 'chartered versus non-chartered' game of ping-pong that we have seen in so many previous threads - if that happens, then please change my answer to option 3...
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Posted By AlB
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Toughie this.
I'm a bit of a way off Charterered status, so don't want to limit my options, but, in all fairness, Chertered status would suggest strong awareness, understanding, education and ability in H&S, and as such would mean that the higher risk industries and businesses would benefit from knowing that they are suitably protected and can demonstrate so in a court of law.
Senior SPs should be CSP. It also promotes continual development amongst the ambitious practicioners and can only serve to increase the competency level and help the profession become a truly recognised business value.
Hey ho. I better get my CPD up to date.
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Posted By Peter Longworth
What would this register achieve?
My view is that the employer is usually the best person to decide what is required. Regulating the choice of who you can employ will only limit the choice for employers and limit the opportunities for lots of people who don't happen to be members, for whatever reason, of IOSH. The argument between chartered and unchartered has been done to death on this forum so I will end by saying it is option 2 for me, marginally before option 3
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Posted By Andrew Cartridge
Merv
Live & let live has always been my motto (until they annoy me:)
But seriously folks!! We can learn from everybody, can't we?
Andy
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie
Steve,
I think that the ICE scheme is aimed giving line managers in the construction sector some acknowledgement when they have attained a standard of H&S knowledge/competence deemed suitable for managing a project.
If you examine the the core knowledge required it is fairly bread & butter stuff for a health and safety professional.
Unless someone else knows better?
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Merv
There's a curious 'sleight of fingers' in the question you raise.
For you talk about a CSP, yet refer to IOSH whose membership and mission include 'H' which is outwith the scope of a CSP.
Now for the really significant omissions in your questinn list:
A. How well qualified are competent safety professionals to advise management on the implications about employee health?
B. How up to date is their familiarity with relevant ergonomic research to advise on adapting work environments and work schedules to accommodate employees of both genders, all ages and any disability?
C. As The Ergonomics Society is en route towards chartership, would registered ergonomists (in due course 'chartered ergonomists) be eligible for the register you propose? Or only those ergonomists who are also chartered safety and health practtioners?
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
What about those people with specialist knowledge and expertise in just one aspect of occupational health and safety? I would never consider myself a safety and health practitioner, but in my own field I would challenge any CSP or MIOSH to match over 27 years of learning, experimenting and developing in just the one area. Would you exclude such people and if so how would you justify removing the availability of this specialist expertise?
I should add that in many cases it is an IOSH member who calls me in when he or she realises that the problem is somewhat more complex than they had originally envisaged.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Kieran and Chris,
A personal quirk, but I tend to use the word safety as sort of a portmanteau word for HSE. As well as CMIOSH I'm also FRSH. And every single one of us has our own specialist subject. I do specifically SMS and BBS. Don't do legislation, don't do machine guarding, and so on. Used to do a lot of occupational health but I'm not licensed to do it here and so don't really "consult" on health issues. I do sometimes offer basic advice (God ! what's that smell in here ?)
The Central Register I am thinking of would include all with HSE (Kieran, you might take exception, but I put ergonomics as a fundamental subsection of H&S) qualifications equivalent to CSP. And as I am sort of suggesting, the senior HSE person for sites/companies with or above a certain level of risk should be someone who is "registered" as competent.
Merv (there's no 'arm in it. H Nelson)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
Fine, but in my particular speciality (prevention of damage to health from workplace skin exposure) there are no recognised qualifications. What knowledge and expertise I have has been acquired over some 27 years of study, experience, work with dermatologists etc.Incidentally I am also FRSH (ex Council and Deputy Chair of the Society's Certification Board). I also lecture on several Universities' MSc and Diploma courses.
So where does this place me in your scheme of things? No formal qualifications, but recognised by many, including HSE, NIOSH, AIHA, BOHS (where I am leader of their Chemical Hazards Special Interest Group) etc. as someone with a particular level of expertise.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Chris,
I don't know if the "grandfather" route into IOSH is still available. With a BA degree but no HSE qualifications at all, just a few years experience, I was accepted as a "corporate member".
The rest is history.
I used to be in BOHS too but dropped it when I found they couldn't communicate with anyone East of Dover.
Maybe there should be a "demonstrable competence" clause.
Merv
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Posted By garyh
To the East of Dover lies the Sea.........I know that and I live in Middlesbrough!
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
"Grandfather" rights disappeared from IOSH some time ago, so I remain an 'outsider'.
You might be interested to know that at BOHS we are about to trial a method of holding short (one hour) seminars over the Internet. This would make participation for people such as you a much more practical proposition.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Garyh,
you are insular.
Chris,
I would be interested in the internet seminars. can you keep me informed please ?
And on the "grandfather" clause, remember I'm not just talking IOSH members. Other associations may still retain that route. I remember that I got my FRHS on the basis of being an IOSH RSP (I think they were having a membership drive and actually advertised in the practitionner) BOHS was harder. I had to be sponsored.
Whatever. I'll let you register with me on the grounds of "demonstrable competence"
How's that ?
Merv
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
You are soooo generous! I'll accept your kind offer - after all, it is Friday
Chris
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