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#1 Posted : 07 June 2006 09:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jon Pickup
Bit of a new one for me, we have just blanketed my site (paper mill 200+ employees) with a 3 stage handcleaning product from 'Deb' (barrier cream, cleanser & moisturiser), which has proved very successful. One of our employees has asked if I know of any-thing similar for his daughter who works in the hairdressing industry and suffers from sore hands.

Does anyone out there have any thoughts or experiance they would be willing to share.
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#2 Posted : 07 June 2006 09:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Helen Horton
It depends on what is making her hands sore. Can you give us a bit more information please? Is she washing hair or using products like perm solutions and colours. What do you mean by making her hands sore - is the skin just dry or does she have dermatitis?
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#3 Posted : 07 June 2006 09:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jon Pickup
As far as I am aware she is washing, colouring and perming !

She has a severa rash, which seems to clear up some at weekends and holidays.

Hope this helps
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#4 Posted : 07 June 2006 10:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
The only real answer is for her to use gloves when washing, perming etc. Ordinary rubber gloves are not usually satisfactory as (a) they tend to catch and pull the customer's hair (not popular!), and (b)the chemicals in the hairdressing salon will quickly permeate the glove, i.e. migrate through at a molecular level, which can actually increase the damage being done. There are special gloves produced for hairdressing by Marigold. These are called Pro-Tech. I understand they have a special formulation and a textured surface that does not catch the hair.

On the subject of barrier creams, note that the HSE does not consider that they should be used as primary protection of the skin. Scientific studies cast considerable doubt on the effectiveness of these products and there is considerable evidence showing increased skin penetration by chemicals due to the use of such creams. The reliance upon these as protection against chemical hazards could also put the employer in a tricky legal situation.

Emollients (after washing creams, moisturisers), on the other hand, are of considerable benefit and their application frequently to clean skin should be encouraged.

If anyone wants to know more on these topics, then feel free to contact me direct.

Chris Packham
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#5 Posted : 07 June 2006 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
My wife is a hairdresser and suffered from the same problem. As already stated she found using gloves difficult. After much searching she found a product that she has been using for the last 2 years.
In a previous employer I had a lady that suffered from severe dermatitis, even though she used barrier creams and wore gloves, the oil still affected her skin. I mentioned this product to her, she made some enquiries, obtained a sample which she used and found that it helped clear up her dermatitis. If you contact me direct, I will provide the name and contact deti=ails of the company in question that manufacturers the mentioned product.
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#6 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philby'
Jon,

Deb do a 'wet work' barrier cream which does not come off just by having hands in soapy water...I used to use it in both the motor trade, solvents, petrol, diesel, brake and power steering fluids, and in the toiletries industry, soaps, denatured alcohol, conditioners etc and I have excema...through previous years working in these industries with little or no protection...gloves were always next to useless, either by melting or puncture

However the cream did come off with two rather different types of hand cleaner, solopol and citrand...no connection and don't know if they are still available...use a good aqueous cream after, don't have to buy expensive ones, our local chemist just makes them up, plain moitoiriser with nowt in but water

Philby
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#7 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Just to reinforce what I mentioned earlier, the following statement was made by HSE:
"Pre-work creams cannot be relied upon for primary protection of the skin as there is no information on the rate of penetration of chemicals through creams"
from: Skin exposure to chemical agents
HSE, 2000, ISBN 0-7176-1826-9

Whether you feel you can rely upon the manufacturers' claims is up to you. Just take account of the fact that legally these are 'cosmetics' and thus not subject to the same controls as industrial personal protective equipment. (However, if you use them as protection you may be reclassifying them yourself as ppe, with all that entails!)

The website of the British Safety Industry Federation published the following statement:
“Since all of these products rely on the user applying the cream correctly, this testing is not a practical proposition if “protection” is being sought. This makes it unreasonable for manufacturers to be held accountable for performance aspects that are outside their ability to control.”

With regard to the comments re gloves "melting" this just illustrates the need to select the right glove. This is not as simple as many assume. In fact there is a whole book on this subject (Protective gloves for occupational use, Boman, Estlander, Wahlberg and Maibach (editors), published by CRC Press). The chapter on selection and use of gloves for chemical protection runs to some 30 pages!
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#8 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Salus
Hi Jon, this sounds like occupational dermatitus, your colleques daughter needs firstly to see her GP and tell them what type of work she carries out, then ask her employer to look at what products they are using and try to find a less harmful / irritant product, or she may have to wear ppe + a barrier cream.

Her employer needs to obtain a material safety dat sheet from the supplier of any product they use , then follow the advice on the MSDS

The employer has a duty to prevent your employees from coming into contact with hazardous substances, COSHH Regulations

Your emplyer should set up a system of skin checks, preferably by an occupational health nurse.

You can do something about occupational dermatitus if attended to early enough but if left can affect your whole life and prevent one from continuing in their chosen career
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#9 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Longworth
It may not be the perming solutions, shampoos etc that are causing the problem I'm sure I have read somewhere that a lot of hairdressers have contracted dermatitis from using nickle plated scissors. Maybe just a different pair of scissors will relieve the problem.
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#10 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philby'
Chris,

couldtn agree more...but...actiaully using the the gloves in practice presents as may falsehoods to the claims gloves have...even if you do select the appropriate glove for the task.

Wolking in the motor trade you need the dexterity to hold/fasten/feel for all sorts of miniscule items..however they all seem to slit relatively easily on associated/surrounding parts and perispherals, sump gurds, timing beltt covers, cambox cowers, exhaust brackets in fact you name it. The meting came from diffent chemical/solvents ect reacting on the gloves...and gloves wernt' exctly aprropriet fo me..just used to agravate my excema

Best advice was try before you buy....all ended up being a compomise

Philby'
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#11 Posted : 07 June 2006 12:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Philby

The major part of my consultancy work is the avoidance of problems from chemicals in contact with the skin. One way in which I have helped a number of motor vehicle workshops is by ensuring that engines are cleaned before work is started. This may take a short time to do, but it ensures a better standard of work and eliminates much of the chemical/skin contact. In several cases it has also resulted in the work being completed in a shorter overall time.

Where this is not practical I have had excellent results using the single-use nitrile gloves. These give good protection against oils, diesel etc. (but not petrol). They will need to be changed at frequent intervals.

Incidentally, there are some very good technical reasons why the use of creams underneath gloves should be avoided. This can increase the risk of irritant/allergic skin reactions.

In response to the statement made about nickel, studies have shown that almost all hairdressing personnel will be found to be sensitised to nickel. However, studies have also shown that the majority of dermatitis cases among hairdressers are irritant contact dermatitis rather than an allergic reaction to the nickel. Incidentally, irritant contact dermatitis is almost always multi-factorial, i.e. from exposure to a number of chemicals. Even water can cause irritant contact dermatitis and "wet work" is one of the most common causes of occupational contact dermatitis.

You can easily check if nickel is being released from a pair of scissors using the dimethylglyoxime test. (If anyone wants to know more on this contact me direct.) Most stainless steels will not release nickel, hence are unlikely to cause a skin reaction.
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#12 Posted : 07 June 2006 13:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philby'
Just read my last response...and took time over this one

diabolical

they arent typos, or due to bad spelling, I have my dyslexic head on today

Philby'
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#13 Posted : 07 June 2006 13:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Bish
My daughter is - or was - a hairdresser, but recently had to give up due to severe cracking of her hands. Alergy tests showed that chemicals in the products contributed to the cracking and soreness of the skin. I agree that the hair products will cause a problem, as may the metal of the scissors, but there is also the ever present problem of contact with the clients hair.
The products adhere to the hair and as it is passed through the fingers are transmitted to the skin, where cracked deep into the lower levels of the skin.
Even if you can control the products used by the salon, there is no way to control the products the client uses themselves.
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#14 Posted : 13 June 2006 18:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Patrick Allen
A few points to consider.

You need to consider if it is irritant dermatitis (usually due to prolonged wet work aggravated by detergent wetting effects) or allergic contact dermatitis (some hair product chemicals are sensitisers), or both (the former leading to, or aggravating the latter).

Irritant dermatitis can effect anyone, although some skin types are more easily damaged than others. In essence the skin is being physically damaged by being degreased and abraded. This is the easier to control of the two types. Use of pre–moisturisers (I avoid the description “barrier” cream as this gives rise to a false sense of security, and has been pointed out by someone else some actually increase rate of absorption of some chemicals), appropriate gloves (used properly) and then proper drying, (patting not rubbing, with a soft surface towel, particular attention to webs of fingers etc.) and then a moisturiser, again properly applied. Avoid anything perfumed (as some perfumes are sensitisers), in fact simple aqueous moisturisers used extensively, such as the ubiquitous “E45” (this is not an advert, I have no connection, and many other similar product will do – ask your pharmacist, but not a cosmetics salesman), are usually much better than more expensive promoted brand name “cosmetic” moisturisers.

Allergic contact dermatitis is much more of a challenge, as once a person is sensitised it can have lifelong debilitating impact to any future exposure to the same chemical. Definitely a case where prevention should be the first strategy. Different individuals have significantly different chances of developing this on the same exposure,. A family history of asthma or excema is often indicative of increased risk of developing such allergic responses. Skin pre damaged by irritant dermatitis will be more vulnerable to sensitisers.

Most gloves are carefully designed to give good grip, as this is usually a critical criteria. In hairdressing you specifically want to avoid grip, so that customers hair does not catch on the glove surface. Hence the need for specialist gloves, as previously mentioned. Also they need to be the right material for the chemical(s) of concern.

As with any COSHH issue consider the product, and if you cannot avoid it altogether, substitute with less hazardous ones. Curiously although most companies do produce material data safety sheets, there is an argument that as these are “cosmetic products” they are exempt from CHIP, so any duty on the supplier may lie under their general duties under the main Health & Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, rather than detailed subsiduary regulation.

If someone gets sensitised to one of the common hairdressing chemicals then the person may well have to cease being a hairdresser and may even have to avoid those hair treatments, even as a customer, for the rest of their life.

Correct use of gloves is important. They are often not used well due to lack of thought, lack of training and lack of supervision. In particular the thing to be avoided must not get inside the glove, either by diffusion or chemical attack penetration (more usually a problem with specific chemicals than prolonged “wet work”), contamination of the glove when being put on, run back from the arm back inside the glove (longer gloves needed, some people find an extra long glove with a little rolled back acts as a drip ledge shedding the excess onto the floor instead of up the arm - but watch out for a slip hazard being created instead) or contamination of the hands when taking them off. Also prolonged wearing of waterproof gloves will give rise to sweating, meaning the hand is still effectively being kept wet for prolonged periods. Lined gloves may help with this.

Disposable gloves, changed often enough, overcome some of these issues, but reusable ones can be OK for irritant dermatitis, if well chosen, well treated and, in particular, properly stored so as to fully dry internally before reuse. Beware latex gloves as latex is a well known sensitiser.

This is a major issue in hairdressing, and a bit like most long term “Occupational Health” rather than immediate “Safety” issues, is not given the consideration it needs. If one third of all hairdressers had a finger chopped off occupationally there would be an outcry, the fact that one third (or more) get regular dermatitis that can lead to permanent damage, seems to be disregarded, even though with care it is largely avoidable.

Patrick Allen
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