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Posted By Scott d
Hi All,
Just trying to answer a question for a friend and hoped you could help.
His company currently receive a delivery of sandwiches every Friday morning for agency staff which they employ. The sandwiches come in a refridgerated van and are in enclosed packages. They sit in a well ventilated room for two hours before being distributed for consumption.
The catering company who run the canteen have complained that the sandwiches are not safe to eat and should be stopped for Health and Safety reasons (nothing to do with financial reasons!)
We would appreciate the views of any food safety bods out there.
Many Thanks,
Scott
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Posted By Andrew Cartridge
What is the temperature of the food when it is served?
Andy
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Posted By Scott d
Hi Andrew,
The catering company with the complaint, will be probing the sarnies today to establish exactly that point.
Do you know what a safe temperature would be for say a cheese sandwich?
Many Thanks,
Scott
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt
Scott
They are kind of right. My food collegues tell me that there is a basic 4 hr guide for service and display of sandwich style packs.
The risk changes though and it really is a matter of the food professionals experience and judgement.
The high risk foods to support bacterial growth are those that contain plenty of protein ( for cell membranes and organelles to be made we need protein.
So Mayonaise and marie rose style sauces are high risk as they contain a lot of egg protein. other sauces tend to carry a high risk due to a high vegetable protein content. Bacon, sausage cooked ham, rioast beef and basically any other type of cooked meat is high risk. Fish and prawn style seafood also are high risk. As is cheeses the softer brit's and camemberts allow faster microbial movement and propogation.
So your turkey and ham triple decker with extra egg mayonaise and prawn stuffing is a veritable gastronomic WMD if left out in the warm for too long.
Basically if you don't have a salad your dead.
Jeff
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Posted By Scott d
Thanks Jeff,
I will tell my friend to get rid of them and he will be devastated that he will have to put his hand in his pocket and buy a sarny! Tight Get.
Many Thanks,
Scott
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Posted By The toecap
Whats wrong with alittle peice of toast?
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
Just change the delivery time so they are not standing as long
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Posted By Steven
I take it the agency supply the sandwiches and don’t charge for them, so is it no different than you or me bringing in sandwiches from home to work, would the canteen say these sandwiches are unsafe?
I think your canteen have a valid point that they may not be safe for health reasons but surely they cannot dictate what people bring into work and eat. It sounds like they are annoyed because they are losing potential sales.
Steve
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Posted By Barry x
Why not have a whip round and buy a fridge?
New fridges are not all that expensive and depending on numbers could be bought with a few days sarny money!
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
Found this website which has info and a few quizzes on food safety
www.foodlink.org.uk
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Posted By CRT
Scott,
Jeffrey is right, under food hygiene legislation there is an exemption which allows food (chilled), which would support the growth of food poisoning bacteria to be kept outside of temperature control for up to 4 hours, therafter it should be refrigerated or disposed of. Agree that it sounds like the canteen are losing trade.
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Posted By Ali
I worked as an Environmental Health Officer for 14 yrs, so I hope what I say is correct ! If the sandwiches were refrigerated at below 8 'C prior to delivery, without breaking the cold chain from production, then they can be kept up to 4hrs (in total). This is assuming they are high risk foods (cooked meats, fish, soft cheese, eggs..).If they are low risk foods (jam, peanut butter...) there is no legal limit provided the food is fit for human consumption.
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Posted By steve e ashton
It is possible the catering firm has a legitimate risk concern: If a single employee suffers illness because his home-prepared sarnies are unhealthy - thats tough. If a dozen employees of the same company come down with food poisoning - then the catering company is going to come under immediate suspicion, and may expect to be closed down by the local inspectors - at least until 'tests' have been completed. And if its the sarny company at fault (or the storage of sarnies delivered on site) then the catering company is unlikely to be able to recover lost business reputation.
The provision of good quality technical advice, and the standards applicable, may assist the local people to determine the appropriate response to the catering companies concerns...
It is not fair to assume crass commercial motives for the catering company's concern without being in full possession of the facts...
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Posted By Merv Newman
OK. Respect the cold chain, +4 to + 8 for sandwiches within the 4 hour limit. But have you ever eaten a 4°C sandwhich ? No taste and tingly teeth.
Merv
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