Posted By Simon Walsh Grad IOSH Perhaps some of my fellow H & S professionals north of the border can help on this one? As an employer we ask our staff to use their own private vehicles on works business, during working hours and pay a mileage allowance for that. When the ban on smoking in enclosed workplaces comes into force in England in 2007 does a private vehicle, used on works business constitute an 'enclosed place of work', and as such the ban on smoking apply? This could be a tricky one as the driver may smoke and passengers not. What you think?

Posted By Simon Walsh Grad IOSH Thanks, you confirmed my thoughts but wanted to sound others out, particularly those north of the border who have probably already dealth with this issue. Any other thoughts out there?

Posted By A. Fergusson My thought would be that the word private is the operative word, the regulation are very unlikely to include private vehicle, so UNLESS the vehicle was being used to transport more than just the owner no it would not be a no smoking environment. If the vehicle was however owned by the business then the ban will apply and already does in Scotland. Andrew

Posted By Simon Walsh Grad IOSH I think you need a lawyer to answer that one. To clarify I work for a public sector organisation. The mileage allowance is paid to an employee who's job requires them to drive for their job. They use their own vehicle to do this. The mileage allowance pays for the petrol used, wear and tear on the vehicle and maintenance. We conduct routine checks of all these drivers insurance cover (business use is required) and MOT and driving licence. I do not want this threat to drift (no pun intended) away from smoking but thought I would answer your question.

Posted By Sean Fraser Just to muddy the waters further - the smoking restriction in Scotland only applies to MARKED vehicles and NOT to cars or unmarked vans. The reason being that the enforcers (local authority Environmental Health) would not be able to distinguish between an unmarked car used for personal domestic purposes and one being used for work purposes. But you don't need to make that distinction until someone asks! Interesting this should come up now - I spotted a vehicle yesterday, approaching a roundabout, with two occupants, while the driver was concentrating on lighting his cancerstick for another hit. I think the risk to both was slightly more immediate than developing cancerous growths . . .! Just shows that the law is easier to enforce when the target is stationary and firmly attached to terra firma. If the police can't be bothered to stop the idiota using hand-held mobile phones (although ALL mobile phone use in vehicles quadruples your chances of a crash) then how are EHOs expected to enforce the no smoking law in vehicles, if they have the required signage and the ashtrays and electric lighters removed? "Smells a bit smokey in here"? Well, don't tell them 'cos they don't know but, smokers tend to stink anyway (even those that cover themselves in sweet-smelling oils, balms and sprays) so that would be expected. Advice - make sure the marked vehicles are not capable of supporting smoking and display the signs, and you are covered. And if your junkies continue to smoke in it? Enforce if there is a complaint, but don't lose sleep over it until then. As for private vehicles used for work purposes - yes, you can tell people not to smoke WHEN they are using it for work purposes (they are at work, so work rules apply) buthow do you enforce it? Will it lead to more problems than it solves? Probably - that was why the law in Scotland avoided it so adroitly, and E&W law will probably do the same (stand by for a weaker and less effective law than we have though which will be so full of compromise as to make it hard for those wanting to apply it and easy for the wasters to ignore it). Bitter? Moi? Never . . .

Posted By Max Bancroft We are in the business of reducing risk not eliminating it completely so we shouldn't don't get too worried about the fringes of the issue - the ocassional exposure of a non-smkoning employee travelling in a smoking employee's private car is unpleasant but not in the same league as bar staff in a pub who have up to now (in Scotland) been subject to continuous exposure.

Posted By Simon Walsh Grad IOSH Thanks jackw, emailed you direct.