Posted By Simon Dobby We have recently downloaded the guides for the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. The guides state that “if you read the guide and decide that you are unable to apply the guidance, then you should seek expert advice from a competent person. More complex premises will probably need to be assessed by a person who has comprehensive training or experience in fire risk assessment”. In addition, the guides repeatedly, both explicitly and implicitly, refer to the need for the person responsible for the premises to "consult a competent person" with regard to the fire risk assessment. Does anyone have any views or could they clarify the following points as they seem to be key/fundamental to the process: Who would be classed as a “competent person”, is there any guidance other than the usual statement of someone with suitable knowledge and experience? Are there any prescribed specifications for “comprehensive training or experience in fire risk assessment”? Is the new NEBOSH qualification appropriate? The template fire risk assessment in the guides would indicate a relatively simple risk assessment process however, the more detailed guidance would suggest otherwise, i.e. a very detailed risk assessment carried out ostensibly by a "competent person(s)". Are health and safety professionals able to undertake any assessment other than one of ensuring that the current controls are available and maintained, are they competent to undertake an assessment from the perspective of what are the required controls? We would particularly welcome the views of Fire Risk Specialist Group members.

Posted By Mike Herbert I was concerned in the same way as you especially given the prevalence of fire risk assessment training programmes at the moment and whether they were worth the money. I do not know about the NEBOSH version but understand that it covers the same ground as in the general/construction certs. I could be well out here so check others for answers. I spoke to my local fire brigade training dept for info and they seemed to consider that given my existing quals and experience would be most likely competent for the low risk environment that i operate in. (offices and event sites mainly). You will notice a number of qualifyers in that last statement as in 'consider' and 'most likely' however. So i take it all under advisement. I am confident enough in my abilities to identify hazards and am perfectly happy to include additional advice where it is available. Not sure if this helps but thought i would sling it into the arena. cheers mike

Posted By shaun mckeever Hi Simon One defintion of competent person was given by Deputy Chief Fire Officer Marles when he was giving advice to Parliament during the preparation for the new regs:- 'They have to have an understanding of fire, the way fire behaves, the way that building reacts to fire, so they can understand the risks that are created. I would add that a competent person must understand human behaviour in fire. For example many people might assume that people panic when confronted with fire but a study of research by Jonathan Sime and David Canter would suggest otherwise. In low risk premises it is not rocket science to carry out a fire risk assessment but people must clearly understand what it is they are undertaking. I have come across many examples where people do not understand what is required. For example they should not tick the box that asks if the fire door is kept shut unless they know what a fire door is. It is not necessarily the door that has a sticky label saying 'Fire Door'. I have come across fire risk assessments completed by RSP CMIOSH that is not worth the paper it is written on, on the other hand I came across an fra today written by a junior office girl and I would have been proud to put my name to it. I often think that firefigters are not considered during the fire risk assessment process. Other things that are not considered carefully are the effects of fire beyond the room or building of origin, disabled persons or temporary disabilities and adequate fire safety training. Try asking a member of your staff what they would do if their computer suddenly burst into flames - do they answer 'I will raise the alarm' and then do they know how they can raise the alarm? so often in fire risk assessments I read the assessor says staff have been trained yet the evidence does not support what is being said. So as you see it is not rocket science but it is a clear understanding of what is being undertaken. I hope this helps I am a member of the Fire Risk Specialist Group