Posted By shaun mckeever The reports to Parliament in preparation for the RRO debated 'where necessary'. Readers of this forum should read the documents prepared for Parliament about the meaning of 'where necessary'. The question should them be where is it not necessary to have fire drills. Many argue that their circumstances are exceptional but the fact is that skeleton crews can be left behind to take care of critical operations or drills can be arranged at changeover periods where the oncoming crew can be excused the drill and can maintain operations. So in reality there are very few circumstances where it is not necessary to practice evacuation drills.

Posted By Simon Ayee This is the definition of whrere necessary in the guides: "The Order requires that fire precautions (such as firefighting equipment, fire detection and warning, and emergency routes and exits) should be provided (and maintained) ‘where necessary’. What this means is that the fire precautions you must provide (and maintain) are those which are needed to reasonably protect relevant persons from risks to them in case of fire. This will be determined by the findings of your risk assessment including the preventative measures you have or will have taken. In practice, it is very unlikely, that a properly conducted fire risk assessment, which takes into account all the matters relevant for the safety of persons in case of fire, will conclude that no fire precautions(including maintenance) are necessary." So if you are going for a lesser standard than the guides state, you should be confident enough to be able to demonstrate that you have done what was necessary (or why following the guide was not necessary). Simon

Posted By Maggie Atterbury I am amazed that anyone would suggest that Fire Drills are not needed in schools - new build or not! Just try to clear 1000+ children from a building, if no one had rehearsed the procedure, knows what they should be doing, where to assemble, how to check everyone is there etc. It would give me nightmares!

Posted By Merv Newman No, I will argue on that Kismet. I need to KNOW how my people will react in the event of an emergency. Whatever it is. If we are talking fire, then it is first actions, information, fire fighting, head count. What if your portacabin catches fire ? If we are talking heart attacks or epilectic fits or diabetic coma, a total power failure, toilets backing up, electric shock (I could go on) I still want to know. Twice a year drills are an absolute necessity. People forget, people get confused, people panic (despite written instructions such as "do not panic") and there are often new people or visitors. Tell me, when you visit one of your sites, would you automatically be included in the head count ? Or do you sneak in to do a surprise inspection ? (stupid question Merv ? Maybe) I want my friends and colleagues (not necessarily congruent) to habitually, on hearing the fire alarm, walk calmly to the assembly point. And be counted. Counting is usually the most impossible part of the procedure if you have more than one person to be counted. 30 years of doing it twice a year is talking here. Merv

Posted By Christopher Long Hi all, We have carried out an unplanned fire drill to see exactly how people would react. All previous fire drills had been announced so we had a Pavlovs dog situation - reacting in the same way every time (oh here we go again with another drill!. The unnanounced drill threw up some rather nasty surprises that really could have led to fatalities in the event of a real fire. The fire drill report led to actions to address those 'deaf' areas (beacons installed). Even though we have an excellent fire detection and warning system based on expert advice, this anomaly was thrown up out of the blue. The point is that it makes no difference how good the alarm system is and how near, or how many fire escape routes there are, you can't be certain that your fire drill system is effective if you don't test it. Had a real fire occurred, we simply would not have been fully prepared. Kind regards Chris

Posted By Merv Newman Kismet, I'm not sure about what we are disagreeing or even if we are. However, I advocate two drills per year ; one with advance warning (tuesday next at 9am) and one with minimum warning (sometime next week) Exercises with observors and a "post mortum". And sometimes a "set-up". usually with cooperation of local fire brigade. Doing this for thirty years I have never had a perfect result. Always room for improvement. slif innit. Merv

Posted By Salus Merv, it would be ridiculous to suggest Kismet has got his scenario wrong, he is right for the building he mentioned. Yours would be OK in a more complex situation such as a office block with variuos floors or a site with many buildings and / or workplaces on it. Do you realy think it would be of any benefit whatsoever to post a couple of persons outside of the cabin to note "what happened" and then to hold a meet to discuss two people exiting a porta-cabin then going to the muster point. If you are PAYE your senior management will not be very pleased and your credibility in the eyes of the employees would deminish rapidly

Posted By Is Kismet It's OK Salus, I was thinking of emigrating anyway - to somewhere where common sense prevails. Did I tell the story of an EHO who went into a village shop run by a couple in their 70s. The EHO found two sandwiches past their sell by date and decided to prosecute the owners for this first offence. The shopowners when found guilty decided to shut up shop and sold the premises as a house. The village no longer has a shop. All the EHO had to do was warn them, help them to put it right, and be on her way. But this is the UK and we expect such an attitude, so lets dot the i's and cross the t's before all the jobs have gone. Proof - I'm happy to name the LA in East Anglia if required.