Posted By Ali We are usually asked to leave by the nearest fire exit where it is safe to do so. I find this + comonsense usually works as we cannot specify which fire exit to use precisely for the reasons you mentioned. Ali

Posted By Peter Moran Am working on a 15 storey office block refurbishment in the City and due to a number of reasons we have 'false-alarm' evacuations of around a 1000 people sometimes 2-3 times a week or twice today already! Thus we don't need fire drills! (Naturally there is a routine drill) The system works well with all out in a matter of minutes. This is only achieved by ensuring all 'safe routes/fire routes' are continually under scrutiny by all. During an actual fire near ground level earlier in the year the Fire Brigade were very complimentary about the whole evacuation process and the manner in which it was handled...this is a tribute to the operatives who react very swiftly to ensure all take the alarm seriously.

Posted By shaun mckeever Brian How do you make it more realistic? Let me tell you. Carry on as you do without telling anyone about the drill but when you initiate the evacuation do it by approaching a member of staff and say to them 'you have just discovered a fire, please take the appropriate action'. This is when you start your stopwatch. It's great fun following them around the office whilst they try and find a manual call point. That is assuming, of course, that they will try and raise the alarm first.

Posted By shaun mckeever Why would you want to close off a major exit? If it is in a protected route then it shouldn't be obstructed by fire. By all means close off an exit from a single floor but not the main exit. I am aware of the fire tests at Cardington, I believe it was by Penny Morgan (not certain) and a certain number of people, not just BA employees, some from Bedfordshire fire brigade were offred an inducement to exit a plane. Don't know about the broken legs and all that. Only the first few who got out were rewarded.

Posted By Merv Newman I have always done two fire drills each year. One in the spring, the other autumn. (rain stops play) The first is announced the week before, giving day and time. This allows people to check the procedure, evacuation routes etc. All checked by observers, stop watch etc. and followed by a "post mortem". The second is not announced. And this is when we put in the problems. Last time I did this in the UK we timed it to catch the "fire chief" on the bog with his trousers around his ankles. Where, as in chemicals, we have continuous processes which cannot be stopped, we ensure the minimum manpower stays on watch. If the drill goes right they are counted amongst the dead. Fire drills. Love 'em ! Just think of the power to get the MD out of his office and on the car park. Yeah ! Merv

Posted By shaun mckeever Kismet, I know there are 101 scenarios for why there are potential reasons why a final exit might not be used but as you said risk assessment was specifically about fire drills. Statiscally fires caused by petrol bombs, cars swerving into building etc do not figure very highly. Realistically fires in buildings usually occur within rooms caused by electrical faults, smoking, cooking etc. The design of a building will require the designer to discount the largest exit from a room to ensure the alternative exits are sufficient. You do not take the same approach when considering final exits from protected routes. As or the information regarding the tests at Cardington, I may be able to lay my hands on it but give me a day or two. When I did my fire engineering degree my final thesis was on the evacuation of the Trocadero in Picadilly and considered human behaviour (amongst other things). Some of my research came from the tests that were carried out at Cardington.

Posted By Brian Hagyard Thank you for all your responses, so now let me add a little more information to this posting. My employer carries out unannounced fire drills on a regular basis and we all dutifully exit via the nearest exit to our assembly point. So this Monday when the alarm sounded, off we all went. Imagine our surprise when entering the main stairwell (which is also the main escape route) we could detect a faint odour of smoke. Due to the design of our building (Offices above exhibition halls) the 1st floor is actually up 4 flights of steps with no exit in between, the other fire escape route is at the back of the building. We were even more surprised when we got to the ground floor to find smoke hanging in the roof space. Turned out that we had had a small electrical fire in a mains distribution board. Fortunately we do have smoke detectors, which had operated very quickly, and the rout was usable. I just wonder what would have happened if this fire had been any worse. What would my colleagues have done had they opened their office doors to find the stairs full of smoke, or worse still started down the stairs suddenly to be met by smoke coming up, so as to have to walk back up the stairs to get to the next fire route? I acknowledge what some of you have said about main routes being protected, all our small kitchens have fire doors to try and protect the escape route. I also acknowledge the problem with creating panic in a practice situation (see my own comment about smoke generator) and causing people avoidable injury, but I ask again in a real fire do you honestly believe ALL your fire escape routes will be available? If there are any fire persons or ex fire persons out there how many commercial fires have you attended where fires have blocked off escape routes and has it caused a problem? Brian.

Posted By colin pink In terms of fire drills and inlight of the problems the hopstila staff faced during hurricane katrina what are peoples feelings on training of vertical evacuation of disabled people? I personally think its not practised enough, does anyone have a good startegy for dealing with this?

Posted By shaun mckeever On reflection, I may have jumped the gun here. If you are referring to the chutes that have been used in other countries then that is what I am referring to when I say don't do it. If you are referring to a strategy of getting disabled persons down stairs via a lift or evac chair or other means then yes this should be debated and strategies developed. My apologies.