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Posted By Steve B
Afternoon folks,
I have just got a little mental blockage with regards contractors. Q. Where does it say " you can tell a contractor what to do but not how to do it" because you are assuming full control therefore liable for their ommisions etc. I know I have seen it somewhere but can I find it!!!!
Help please.
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Steve
I have not seen it written to the best of my knowledge, but I have heard it mooted before.
I don't care for it personally. If you are the PC then I believe you would have every right to 'tell the contractor how to do it', at least from a safety perspective. That given, the same principle must also apply in other contract work. Even as the Client you have an obligation to ensure those that you employ are competent. I am sure a little advice would not go amiss either.
Regards
Ray
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Posted By RP
As a Client you have to inform the contractor of the hazards associated with the job, such as underground cables. You also have to provide any health and safety information, such as underground cable plans.
Whatever the contractor does to carry out the job safely should be agreed by way of a method statement.
A very good publication is the HSE book, 'Control of Contractors', also INDG 368.
See this link:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2003/e03117.htm
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Posted By Steve B
Thanks for the info guys, I am well versed with CDM, control of contractors, risk assessment, review of method statements, pre-tender advice etc etc....... I know when I review method statements I give guidance i.e. ask questions like "how are you going to control this" for example.... what I do not do is write the method statement for them because that means I am telling them how to work, thus taking the responsibility (by the way I work in the Nuclear industry and I always act for the client) I know the question I asked is not an easy one because I have searched high and low, I know I have seen it written down somewhere I just cant find it...... I will continue searching and if I come up with something I will let you know......
Regards
Steve
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Posted By Alan Hoskins
Steve,
There's a case from 1993 - Morris v Breaveglen Ltd (t/a Anzac Construction Co). A labourer loaned to main contractors told what to do and how to do it... main contractor becomes vicariously liable for negligence of contractor.
Don't know if that's what you're looking for?
Alan
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Posted By Reed L
Hi Steve,
Not sure if the following helps:
Section 3 HASWA is designed to give protection to the general public or other non-employees to ensure that they are not at risk from workplace hazards, etc this will include trespassers. This duty would extend to an employer engaging an independent contractor to do work which forms part of the employer's undertaking, he must stipulate for whatever conditions are needed to avoid those risks and are reasonably practicable. The employer cannot, having omitted to do so, say that he was not in a position to exercise control (Precedent R v Associated Octel Co Ltd)
Regards,
Laura
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Steve
I think R v Associated Octel is pertinent here; I am sure that you can find details on the web somewhere.
Paul
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi
Isn't your question from a tax background. If you have more control over your contractors, then they could be classed as employees. Hence you can tell them what you want doing, but the how is up to them - its the end result your paying for....?
Linda
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Posted By Steve B
Thanks guys, a lot of useful information coming out. I suppose the point I am trying to make is. I represent the client on the H&S front and therefore advise the client. I review method statements and Risk assessments from the contractor and make recommendations (suggestions)to ensure all hazards have been addressed. There is a very fine line between making suggestions to re-writing their method statements, as I believe this would be seen as telling the contractor how to carry out the work therefore taking full control and the liability that goes with it. Since I posted this question I have managed to find something in CDM "If the clients specify materials or methods of working, this may make them designers under CDM, with the additional duties of a designer etc etc. This would be even more relevant if we contracted a design build job. anyway thanks for all the info guys..... its nice to share..
Regards
Steve
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