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Posted By Anwar Afzal
We have a number of elderly resdential schemes which have never had fire fighting equipment in them and still dont. They have been told by the local fire officers that there was no need and all they had to do was call for help.
Is this correct? i am under the impression that the fire regs state we have to have fire fighting equipment and that staff should be trained accordingly? Heads of depts are kicking a fuss because they believe i am causing them unneccassary expence
Any suggesstions,
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Anwar,
The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 says
'a) the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment and with fire detectors and alarms'
The conundrum is in the use of the word 'appropriate'.
You will certainly find that other guidance, such as HTM84, applicable in Residential Homes, does stipulate that Fire Extinguishers should be provided, and 'Fire Safety - What You Should Know' also says that they should, at the rate of at least one per floor per 200 square metres. However, as you know you can't be prosecuted for not following ACOPs and Guidance as such.
However, an increasing number of fire professionals, and safety professionals, are saying don't bother, as the best response to a fire is to get out while the getting's good. But I think that many fire services and fire risk assessors in would say that you do need first aid fire fighting equipment, but if you do have it you need to train staff in its use.
I would be chary about statements from fire officers made in the past saying 'don't worry we'll get people out' as increasingly they may not. Of course they'll remove people in immediate danger, and where they'd be in the way or at risk from fire fighting activity, but if you have a large building they probably won't bother with people in any bits of it which will be safe from the effects of the fire, at least, this is what I have been led to believe in recent public events about the RR(FS)O I have attended. The responsibility for evacuation is the managers.
Do your risk assessment, and decide whether you feel you do or don't need first aid fire fighting equipment, if you feel you do there is guidance which you can wave in front of your bosses which will support you,
John
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Posted By Ali
The new Regs is based around risk assessment and the emphasis is very much on prevention.
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Posted By Is Kismet
..... and making sure people can safely escape if there is a fire.
Which, for the second part at least, can be very problematic.
I'd be very worried if I was responsible for a premises where even the smallest fire couldn't be put out because of the lack of provision of fire extinguishers, and where there may be a problem with a speedy evacuation.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
The word 'appropriate' was discussed during the parliamentary process when the RRO was being formulated. The FBU had concerns about how people would interpret 'appropriate' precisely because of what is being discussed here. I can assure you that where there is life risk then it is not appropriate to be without firefighting equipment. Where first aid firefighting equipment is provided then there is a duty for persons to be trained in its us. I believe (but not certain) that this has been tested in court.
It may be appropriate in unoccupied buildings not to have firefighting equipment.
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Posted By Len Newman
We have removed our water hoses saving £7000 in maintenace.We left a few for cleaning and replaced with 9L Water Extinguishers.
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