Posted By Stupendous Man Would be interesting to know more about this - particularly the Court case (if there is one). Enforcement such as this would probably mean half the country shutting down, can't see it happening myself. A question to ponder - would the enforcing authorities be right to determine that air conditioning is so widely available and affordable that its installation is reasonably practicable in most workplaces?

Posted By Descarte Safety caution to all other practioners out there, Was holding my breath and nearly passed out, so call me sceptic but I wouldnt hold my breath for an upper limit. Local council's I guess can impose new limits if they like given fair warning but I would like to see how they could prosecute when the limits they provide are well with in the HSE guidance. 26 dec depending on the circumstances could be excessivly too hot in some work places also effected by PPE air movement and humidity and work load and.... This is the problem with having an upper limit and why there has never been one in the past

Posted By garyh I would ask the EHO where he or she got this 26oC limit from. If they claim some ruling or other, ask them for a copy or a reference to find it. In short, ask for the proof that they have some evidence to base it on. You could also tell them that all works in foundries and steelworks (and other such places) will have to stop indefinitely following the precedent they are setting! Surely it is not the workplace temperature, rather worker's exposure to it which is relevant.

Posted By Andrew Wilson Totally agree with Garyh...I work for a foundry and we would never work if a 26c limit was imposed. It is the provisions you make for the workforce exposed to such conditions and to a similar extent those who work below the HSE guidelines of 13c. Just think of those who have to work outside in both extremes of temperature e.g. farm workers & the construction industry. I am definately not surprised it's the TUC banging this old drum again.

Posted By Descarte can you imaging 2 offices next door, one is 29 Deg C other is 30. So some people would get to go home and others not, lol now THAT would be funny. And say in the morning it gets to 30 Deg C at 11:30 then drops back down again after 15:00, could you call people back to work. I wonder how many would leave their phones off the hook. Oh well cheered me up this sunny scottish afternoon, By the way it is cooler today, only 28 degs in my office, window is open, sun is shining through a nice breeze, its lovely

Posted By Jeffrey Watt This is unenforceable. EHO might advise a target temp that they think is reasonable taking the circumstances into account but an upper limit does not exist and they cannot use a quanta of 26 degrees as a reason to prosecute. They might still say you weren't taking reasonable measures but they are on a sticky wicket if they give an exact temp because the thermometer reading is not a measure of heat load on the individual as the foundry guys have already suggested. If there is a recent case stating 26 degrees then that is particular to that case and does not automatically apply to the entire UK per se. Sure your body is 36.4 degrees what are you worried about. Pass another Raspberry Rocker matron...thanks. Kind regards Jeff

Posted By Descarte and a thermometer reading does not take in to account any other external factors such as air movement or humidity, I ronicaly I would tell them to shove that thermometer up, well if it is a medical thermometer that is :D Sry must be getting delerious in the excessive heat in my office, think I should go home

Posted By Jeffrey Watt Yep Des Everyone should read the Gym Risk asessment thread for a short explanation of humidity and air movements and effects on heat load. Kind regards Jeff

Posted By Glyn Atkinson Does this mean that I eventually be able to tell "She who must be obeyed" that all DIY work in conservatories / inside the house / warm loftspaces etc is banned during summer months or freak high temp days ?? - Whoopee !! On second thoughts, book me the hospital bed - it would appear from my latest negotiations that "husband status" is exempt from petty H&S rules regarding welfare requirements, and my lunch and mugs of tea will be delivered as normal so as not to stop me working!! Workers rights ?? - chance would be a fine thing !! She's a lovely woman really!! (did I spell that right, dear ??)

Posted By Descarte They do that in aberdeen, well its called trades fortnight, not al places close down however, including mine :(

Posted By Descarte Have a look here: http://www.usdaw.org.uk/...ry/1060172582_11615.html this mentions 25 Deg and heat exhaustion sets in They also mention "We want the upper limit set at around 27°C as anything above will lead to a serious risk of heat exhaustion. " Makes me wonder how I managed to survive 3 days last week at 30+ in my office without dying! "We are particularly concerned about pregnant women and the elderly who are at serious risk from high temperatures and a failure to act early during a heatwave has led to fatalities in parts of Europe over recent years." Surely eldery people such as those over 65 (though I wouldnt call 65 elderly these days) would be retired any way? so I dont know why this trade union is mentioning the fatalities that hapened in Europe these past years. And pregnant workers would have seperate risk assessments anyways. Why didnt they also mention that young babies can also be effected by high temperatures, I would happily employ a policy at my work stating all those under 2 and over 80 can go home as soon as the temperature reaches 27 Deg C.

Posted By Philby' stupendous man... couldn't agree more "Allianza dollars are spent To raise the towering buildings For the weary bones of the workers To go back in the morning To be strong in the morning" they've done their bit, buy your own aircon, I too am going to invest However, I am not one of those 'they'll be moaning in winter', I like the cold and really do feel bad in heat...accordingly I wouldn't work in a foundry, bakery etc, I work in an office (after 14 years in the motor trade, which is also unbearable in heat) does no-one take that seriously, or am I really that odd? Philby'

Posted By Doug Russell As someone who works for Usdaw, one of the unions calling for a maximum temperature in the law, first some comments for Descartes and then some general points. The reference to elderly and children Descartes mentions was in a press release specifically talking about the heatwave in shops - Usdaw members in retail do take the welfare of customers seriously as well. As for 'pregnant workers would have separate risk assessments' try changing that to 'should' and try explaining about pregnancy risk assessments and reasonable adjustments to the managers we find who won't allow water to be carried at the check out and won't offer more frequent breaks in hot weather. On the general points, none of the unions calling for a max temperature are saying we should all be allowed to go home as soon as the thermometer hits 27C (unfortunately, says he, as he looks at the lovely sunshine outside his office). We have thousands of members working below the minimum temperatures in cold stores, food manufacture, etc. The presence of the minimum standards in the regs makes it easier to get managers to agree that other measures are needed - and in the case of those workers who are only occasionally affected when the weather is especially bad saves arguments about whether it is too cold or not. Figures of 27 to 30C are suggested as maximum standards becasue lots of expert research shows that heat stress can start to be a problem in that range even in average humidity. It would help to save a lot of silly argument and ill-feeling in the workplace if standards did exist in the ACoP just as they do for minimum temperatures. If you want to see how sensible the union advice is then try the latest guidance from the TUC - http://www.tuc.org.uk/h_and_s/tuc-12183-f0.cfm

Posted By GT Just for the record, ambient temperatures here were / are 48 degrees "c" which is increased when you move the closer to the work station, i.e. the furnace 850 c. Is it all relative? gt

Posted By Rob T Tom, If the the LA are claiming precedent - do make sure they understand what one is. It has been known for some people in LA's to quote Magistrates decisions!!!! I'd also like to see what type of notice they give you (they're not talking about walk-in fridge temperatures are they?). Tony is absolutely right. Call their bluff!

Posted By Descarte "Everytime we get a hot spell half the country stops working " At least then it would be the same as when we get a bid of snow, cold weather, rain etc. hehe, cheered myself up this hot sunny aberdeen morning, 28 in my office today so not too bad :-)

Posted By CRT I have read the previous threads with interest and found the replies very informative, however to answer the main question, an Improvement Notice cannot be served for exceeding 26C because the Regs (Reg 7)do not state a maximum temp. A notice could be served however for failing to take reasonable steps to minimise the effects of thermal discomfort (HASAWA Sec 2(e)?)if the latter, then appeal, i`ll be very interested to hear the outcome.

Posted By John Mac Carthy Fellow colleagues I'd agree the only logical means forward if appropriate would be to individually risk assess each office/premise based on activities v industry norms. I'd also be extremely interested if a person of the legal persuasion was so inclined to make a judgement based on an individual or is this human rights gone mad again...one ponders I'd for one welcome our colleagues at the HSE to provide guidance besides that which we already know i.e. thermal comfort in the workplace which is at best woolly, like a sheared sheep. In my humble opinion the main difference between inside and outside work is ventilation/wind factor. I visited one office last week that had more fans on to create a temporal temperature shift which felt like being at a wind farm/tunnel and it was still 36 degrees Celsius. They had no real effect. It was even more humorous as it was such a diverse office that some individuals had fleeces on complaining it was cold (yes they actually had visible goose bumps); others were almost passing out, while most seemed oblivious of the heat stress which was settling in gradually. There has been so much discussion over recent months upon work place stress, why hasn't heat stress been considered to such a degree? Again as our colleague pointed out increase in consumption invariable means increase in global temperature, or so it appears. HSE please respond we implore you!!!