Posted By Jim-F
How do I obtain a CSCS card? does IOSH have a link to CSCS? or do I have to do an 18 month NVQ lev 4? other chartered organisations get 1

Posted By gham
Jim

Do the test the same as everyone else, the test you do will determine the card you get...

The yellow one is a canter. Never been asked for it ever

Posted By Dee
You used to be exempt from having to sit the Health and Safety Test if you had the NEBOSH Construction Certificate, not sure if this is still the case.

Anyway, that's what I did and that allowed me the Gold Level Card (which I think is supervisory level)

Dee

Posted By Dave Wilson
NEBOSH Contruction cert means a waiver and you still get the gold card etc.

However if you are a Nebosh Dip / NVQ6 etc and CMIOSH with 25 years experience, who can teach the Cons Cert you still have to do the test.

Crazy or what!

Its all in thewording as the CSCS people on their helpline have a script they read from to answer queries and do not understand what is being said to them.

"Sorry only exemption is Nebosh Cons Cert"

However not to tar CSCS the SPA / CCNSG are the same they will not recognise the others either.

As an ex EHO and CMIOSH i had to sit a two day course before I was allowed to visit our guys on site at a food manufacturer and pay for the priviledge! There is only so much of HASW Act Sect 2 says this and MWSW Regs says this I could stand.

Posted By Is Kismet
And even then Dave it has to be less than a certain age - think it is 3 years but may be less.

Posted By Michael Battman
Agree totally, get over it and get the card.

If you want to start an argumnent on here all you have to do is put CSCS in your topic name.

Posted By gham
The last point stick with any certification even IOSH, so would expect yes I need put my money where my mouth is and sit the test like everyone else to get my wee yellow card or gold card or whatever, but it does not mean that I am happy about it. Dave's point is why should you sit CSCS then still have to do SPA and CCNSG why do they not aknowledge each others validity which is true for all trades, it's not sitting the one test it more the number of test you have to sit

Posted By Michael Battman
Sorry that should have been personal

Posted By Michael Battman
So I take it you don't agree with the CSCS scheme

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Salus

Some very pertinent points. I have observed the NVQ process in action with one of the better construction training companies. They are very good at it but even they cannot assess H&S competence - it is still the touch screen test or bust. This test is actually part of the NVQ requirements!!! Their view is astonishment that they are competent to assess the trade skills but are barred from using IOSH members on their staff to assess H&S competency. But they have to comply in order to achieve their target training needs.

The CSCS touch screen is merely a very basic knowledge test - It has nothing to do with personal competence in H&S, or perhaps even personal safety. So there is for me little benefit to be gained, like many I have been an IOSH corporate member for over 20 years and active in construction since the early 1980s so I recognise the real frustrations felt by many. The anticipated changes will merely mean that few H&S practitioners in my position will qualify for anything other than a visitor card ultimately.

I suppose the flip side of the issue is the very good lobbying skills that have been applied by CSCS to such as the MCG. The scheme has been seen as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It seems to be forgotten that the end of the rainbow is actually nowhere to be found in reality - it always moves. We need to geet to a point where contractors and others have an evidenced competence management system which controls not just the usual SKATE but also attitude and behaviour of all levels of employee involved in construction work. Use of professionally recognised CPD in a recognised chartered or royal charter body is the start of such a system but more needs to be done.

Bob

Posted By Iain michie
Prior to the CSCS/CPCS route plant operatives and site operatives had to attednd a one day Site Safety Awareness Course, duration 8 hours, 6 hours tuition (which was comulsary). This course consisted of written test papers and case studies which everyone had to do. The Assessor/Instructor was then able to identify training needs and used different methods of assessment. When delivering this course myself I found a greater number of the candidates had a better understanding of their duties and responsibilities and a higher number of candidates passed the final exam.

The problem I have found with the touch screen test, is that 2 weeks prior to sitting the test the candidates receive the 'BOOK' with sample questions and answers, how many actually read it? not many.

When this test was first introduced it had a high failure rate, 78%, and at a cost of £35.00 per head (£50.00 Isle of man) it became very costly with the re-sit fees. Cost has now been reduced to £17.50 but the candidate is responsible to buy his/her own book at a cost of £9.99. This still does not guarantee a pass or does it provide evidence of a candidates level of competence.

I Hold a CSCS Platinum card and all I had to do is attend The Construction Site Managers Safety Training Scheme, where as now, whether you are a graduate or not you have to register for an NVQ, I'm unsure whether I will be exempt when I come to renew it, enen though I have my NEBOSH Construction.

I read the comment about how NVQ Assessments are carried out, I do agree that there are number of Cow-Boy outfits and it is a money spinner, however there are a number of very goog training providers out there who will provide you with a service that is second to none.

Yes there are guys that will carry on doing their own thing and getting on with the job, even after trining and assessment, but surely this is a supervision problem on site.........

Posted By Dave Wilson
cant remember who said that CMIOSH should still do the test! poppy cock!! if you are CMIOSH and get one question wrong on this then you should not be in safety!

This CSCS along with CCNSG / SPA and any other passport scheme will not improve safety on any site!!! although well intentioned it is way for some companies to get money out of contractors or why won't the recognise each other??

200 staff CSCS / SPA / CCNSG Petro / Food etc is a fair amount of wedge out of any budget.

Our guys look like Mr 'T' from the 'A' team with the amount of cards and passes they have around their necks.

As far as the stop winging brigade, we have bitten the bullet and done them all at great expense, thats not the point its the time effort and money invested for concievably nothing (about 700 working days!). a utilities safety management company asked for sheds of money to be 'Safety accredited' so we could work on utilities contracts or should I say get on their approved list with no promise of any work, although we have CHAS / ARCA / NAT Brit Safecontractor and CSCS Gold cert etc no exemption!! and hey ho could all can be done by email!!!!

You guys in construction fair enough CSCS is your way but what about other companies who are active in all work areas?

Posted By Jim Walker
I agree with Dave Wilson on this.
My company suffers too with so many schemes, time & money wasted for absolutely no benefit..

What a pity "Europe's leading body for H&S practitioners" can't take a lead in sorting out this dogs breakfast.

Would make far more sense and have more long term benefits than hitching its wagon to the Olympic games - which I predict will be a fiasco to match the dome & wembley.

Posted By Is Kismet
Stupendous Man, you wrote:

"If people think that the tests for these cards are below them, then perhaps they should not bother undertaking construction work. It is very dangerous to dismiss 'easy' tests - there is a risk that you can get so engrossed in detail and overlook some of the basics."

In light of the inputs since your last comment (above) do you still have the same view?

Is

Posted By Stupendous Man
Is Kismet, yes I do still stand by my comments. As Dave Wilson said in one of his postings

'if you are CMIOSH and get one question wrong on this then you should not be in safety!'

Unless you do the test, how are to know if you will get a question wrong?

Posted By Ian Mitchell
Hi Martin,
Not denying MAK his chance to respond, but it is one of the nuances of the planning supervisor's role that it is actually possible to do an excellent job without ever visiting the site. The role is one of enabler and coordinator (hence job title change next year). If the dutyholders that make up the project team are proficient in their provision of information and their communication chain etc, the PS can ensure the safety of the project from the drawings on the board to the demolition in 2076 without ever leaving their office!

Posted By Advanced Safety
As much as i am not a complete believer in the way the CSCS system is set-up, i dont think that MIOSH/CMIOSH or CFIOSH automatically gives the holder of this designation suitable construction Health & Safety Knowledge. Throughout my studying over the years i have encountered many senarios and questions regarding Confined Spaces. Although i can highlight Legislation and safe practices to follow, i would not deem myself competent to enter one, as i have never entered one before. A general practitioner may be very qualified, but may never have entered a construction site before. (probably a bit out of context, but i know what i mean!) ha! ha!

Posted By Advanced Safety
Expat

Sanctury! Thought i was the only Construction bod here. Was begining to feel like the muddy loner.

Posted By IT
Another here Advanced Safety.

MCG requires membership of CSCS as proof of competency in construction and fully support the scheme ,so its quite simple NO card / NO Site Access as per site inductions.it is also an audit for supply chain in construction for the main contractors.

BTW

CMIOSH member just applied for his card and was given a supervisor card as the scheme does not recognise MSc (his words) ,you must hold NVQ 4 to hold the platinum card for Safety Manager like mine ;)

And fully agree with p winter walk the walk ,lead by example

Posted By IT
Dave,

CSCS is not about F/CMIOSH or whatever it is a standard to establish competence, a word I see in many posts on this forum.

It is the ACCEPTED industry competency measure, you don’t have to do it, but then they don’t have to let you on site either.

What’s more embarrassing sitting a 2 minute test or being escorted from site as an F/CMIOSH member without it?