Posted By Paul Leadbetter Anwar If the action in Iraq is 'in the interests of national security', then, no doubt, the Secretary of Defence will have issued an exemption certificate under Regulation 12 of the PPE Regs. Paul

Posted By Bob Youel Once the rules of engagement [ROE] have been satisfied *ALL laws do not apply until such time as the ROE are seen as not applying *ALL laws: Unfortunitely our troops [I browned my knees for my C] are now subject to sillyness by those who have never had a bullet fired at them! We won WW11 etc [and every bodies freedom to express themselves on such a site as this] by winning not by being soft

Posted By Jim Walker Anwar, Exemptions aside, it is for precisely this reason we will never see a decent corporate manslaughter law in this country.

Posted By Rob T I'm not actually sure whether Anwar is being serious here but there is a point to be made. The MoD have been absolutely disgraceful in their allocation of resources to our armed forces in the supply of equipment. On one occasion back in 2003 I was based in Basrah (no I wasn't a soldier) and saw some of our troops still in jungle DPM's. Most of the Land Rovers also hadn't been painted in desert livery. Talk about stick out like a sore thumb! I went up to Al Amarah where the base was served by both UK and US forces - the Yanks were all kitted out in the right attire each with body armour - they had 200,000 troops we had 40,000. How come they could get the proper equipment and we couldn't? (They even had a branch of Burger King brought in!). This should not be left to rest but not through H&S Legislation. The second point though is - no. HASAWA should not, cannot and will not ever be a consideration for troops on active service. (How can you provide a safe place of work in Afghanistan?) This is not to say that the armed forces haven't got their own rules which, if individual soldiers break, may mean court martial proceedings and potentially far harsher penalties than civilians. People who have never been under fire pontificating about what to do in those circumstances would be ridiculous. Anwar - I presume you were just being mischievious when you posed this question and hope that you were not really being serious.

Posted By Jeffrey Watt World War III Brought to you by the lowest bidder.... Nope it ain't funny. Jeff

Posted By Jeffrey Watt My mates mate reports starting a still as quickly as he could during desert storm. Alcohol was banned (or so the story goes, could be bull). He reportes that night vision goggles and camp beds fell off the Americans with one whiff of his flask. He reported that the only decent British kit compared to the yanks was NBC suits. Have no direct knowledge but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Jeff

Posted By Rob T You could of course get two cans of lager a day in Basrah base (or pop down to the local Chinese shop - well the Press could and some of the soldiers were definately spotted loading up crates at one time from the same store! Before it was petrol bombed of course). But to put the body armour issue in some context - Army body armour (supposedly class III high velocity approx 5 inch plates)= £250 Standard Broadcaster body armour (class III - high velocity 8x12 inch approx plates) = £650 - £750 My personal body Armour (class III lightweight high velocity plates 8x12 inch approx )= £1100 My kevlar jacket also allows the body to breath and is super light weight (approx 24 lbs in total with plates).(goes up to about 34 lbs with class IV armour piercing plates) If I can get this stuff for my use (normally in and out within 2 to 8 weeks) then I can't see why the army can't for our soldiers on a six month (or longer) stint. I would have thought "practicable" would come to mind in these circumstances but as with everything and Gordon Brown it all comes down to money. I still don't think it's a HASAWA issue though. But I do think there is a case for manslaughter! Cheers Rob

Posted By Rob T Anwar, Sorry just can't see any connection with "being a Muslim" and anything whatsoever to do with the question (or answers). What's your point?

Posted By Anwar Afzal Rob The moderators seem to think i have an alternative motive asking these kind of questions sometimes, thats why mate.

Posted By PaulA Saracen11.. "..I think that goverment depts should be governed by the same law don't you?..." If thats the statement you are refer to.... I think he hit the nail smack dead centre and has stated what I have firmly believed in for the last 20 years! We are renegade in our pursuite to get the job done... in peace times back at base.. our accident reporting procedure is so difficult for poorly H&S trained 'stitched up' representatives to understand and bad statistics might loose somebody the chance to get another 'pip' or 'stripe'... I entered into the H&S world to ensure that none of my 'subordinates' (thats what they're called!!!') or otherwise get hurt whilst conducting a normal days work. We are perhaps not bound by financial constraints as our civilian counterparts but are bound by a strict autocratic regime called a rank structure. We have a JSP375 that gets ammended every five years and little dissemination of new legislation to senior ranks. We loose people via the 'medical pension route...' and just open another box of trainees to abuse.. In case anybody hadn't picked up on it... yes i am still in and an embassador for the services.. but don't get me started on their H&S!!! GRRRRRRRRRR..... PaulA

Posted By PaulA I'll get of my soap box then..! PaulA