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Posted By JAI
We as a caring employer have provided our staff (6 in total) with a portacabin to use as a cloakroom and place to have breaks
Smoking is not permitted but the use of a kettle and microwave will be
So to the fire risk assessment I identified the usual extinguishers but came a cropper on the fire warning and detection system
The cabin is stored away from the main building and will only be used on a limited basis
I contacted a local fire alarm firm and they have stated the company should install a fire alarm, fire call point and two smoke alarms all wired to the fire panel which will be fitted to the inside of the portacabin? (Not good in my opinion)
Thoughts please is this going to far or about right for a location with limited use and potential ignition sources
Jai
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Posted By John Webster
From a practical standpoint, if this is a single room cabin and is away from other buildings what purpose does a fire detection/alarm system serve? In the unlikely event of the cabin catching fire it would probably be destroyed before the fire brigade could get there anyway.
Provide a local extinguisher and concentrate on fire prevention - empty the rubbish regularly, periodically check the electrical appliances for damage, especially to the plugs & leads, and keep the microwave clean.
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Posted By Jason Wiggins
I have to agree with John on this. If the cabin was going to be perminanent, then connecting it to the main building fire system would be of use,if people were using it for a length of time.
But as John states it will not effect the main facility building and the cabin would have been destroyed before the fire service arrived.
Try like John says keep on top of house keeping, fire extinguishers & if need be a portable smoke detector.
J
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Posted By Robert Paterson
Hi
I was reading the postings and thought about how you would let people using the portacabin know that an emergency situation exists in the main building. Surely some alarm system would need to be in place for that.
Reagrds
Robert Paterson CMIOSH
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Posted By John Webster
Hi Robert
Again, if the cabin is away from other buildings, would they need to know immediately? Anyone in the cabin is already out of the main buildings, and those within the main building should be evacuating without their help. We have several unconnected buildings on our site, and because of the vastly different ages of the AFD & alarm systems in each, several do not "talk" to each other. We don't have a problem with this. The fire procedures should be robust enough to stand up no matter who is absent at the time.
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Posted By Scott d
Hi All,
I find that fire alarm companies and those who sell fire extinguishers always recommend far more than is required. If you are in any doubt contact your local fire service who will give you advice.
My personal opinion is that the advice covered in this section is accurate, you do not need to have alarm systems. I have a portakabin on site also and it does not have an alarm system.
Scott
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hummm, am I dull or what? If a fire breaks out when someone is in the portacabin will they not know it and get the hell out and raise the alarm (or possibly stand and whatch it burn down and say I thought someone else was responsible for calling the fire services, or will they be so stupid as to ignore it? Anyway if there is no one in there surely there is only risk to property which will soon be seen if anyone tries to enter! As to the fire service advise to fit AFD and alarms just tell them to go away; under the RR) such devises are only required where necessary and as a single room building used only accasionally and not directly for work purposes (Breaks and meals etc) added to its independent nature makes it unreasonable to spend upwards of £5k for such a small risk.
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Posted By Robert Paterson
I would have thought so. Imagine someone just finished lunch and making their way out of the cabin. They don't know about any emergency situation such as a fire because there is no alarm. They then proceed to enter the building into the face of a fire.
Would it not be better for an alarm to let them know immediately an emergency situation arises. Might seem a wee bit over the top I know, but I would not like to try and explain to the HSE why there was no alarm in place.
If it was myself in that situation I would be trying to establish a communication system in the portacabin.
Regards
Robert
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Posted By JAI
Thanks for your the info so far
The Cabin will be a permanent fixture and is therefore going to be connected to electricity and water; it is also in two sections, one used as a cloakroom the other used as a mini canteen
My recommendations from the initial risk assessment include a regime of pat testing, fire awareness training and housekeeping procedures are put in place like the main building which is also a portacabin (one on top of each other), both fully alarmed
The cost of the alarm system is small at around £700, and I think to be on the safe will look into have the system fitted
For me the problem is the fire company would like to place the fire panel inside the cabin along with the call point, smoke detectors, siren and flashing light
If the siren goes do they really expect us to look at the panel inside the cabin and see which room is on fire
Jai
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Posted By Paul Oliver
Can you hear the main building fire alarm from where the portakabin is?
Do you visually inspect all items of electrical equipment on a regular basis?
Has the portakabins fixed electrical installation undergone inspection & test within the last 12 months?
Do you actively enforce your no smoking ban?
If its yes to these then don't be throwing money away. install a battery operated smoke alarm, even obtain a rotary handbell or battery operated fire alarm (Approx £90 from ARCO)
Provided simple fire safety awareness info to the users of this area.
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Posted By JAI
You can hear the main building fire alarm from where the portacabin is (only 10 meters away from main building)
We can include an electrical equipment inspection Rota with the weekly fire extinguisher checks
The electrical installation has just been completed by a qualified electrician and would fall under the annual inspection regime
The whole site falls under a smoking ban? (Smoke hut provided off site)
Adding to this the site is small around the size of a football pitch with only one way in and out
Jai
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Posted By Sarah O'Brien
I read with interest the postings, I recently did a fire safety mangers course and the trainer who had 35 years experience 25 as a fireman and 10 as an investigator asked why we would ask a company who is selling fire equipment for their advise, would you,he explained go into a car showroom and ask the salesman what he thought you wanted, no you would say that this is the budget I want this, this and this, so going on the same lines do the fire risk assessment. On asking the fire authority everytime I have asked them for advice they come back with the same lines "it would be subject to your risk assessment" you can not get them to say "this is want you need to do", and with the new fire reform act coming into being its all about your risk assessment anyway.
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Posted By Ashley Wood
This is an interesting one. I have seen a single portacabin type building located on a large building site grow as the contract develops into a virtual city. Looking at what information has slowly unfolded I would say there are lots of other issues for you to consider as well such as the separation distance from the main building to this Portacabin. But sticking to the original thread, I have seen cases where fire alarm contractors advocate a full BS5839 alarm system when in fact all that is required in the means to rase an alarm. This could be an air horn or other device, as long as it is recognised as the alarm by staff and visitors. However, if the main cabin complex has an alarm system fitted it would make sense to extend the system across the short distance to the other cabin by means of a catenary cable or by underground duct. If you do this then the system would have to comply, so no domestic type smoke detectors.
£700 sounds reasonable to me. Regarding the fire alarm panels being inside the building. You will always find the fire alarm main panel at the entrance of a building, this is not there for you to read but for the attending fire service to look at. In the old days there used to be a code of practice called the FOC and this is where this requirement originated and then was adopted by other standards. It does not matter if the panel is in side or out. If the alarm goes off by all means pass it, look at it, remove the printed piece of paper if it has one, and leave the building. Greet the fire service when it arrives and pass on the information.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
What would the purpose of the fire alarm be? Is it for property protection or life protection?
If it is for life protection then surely the occupants of the portacabin are sufficient. No electrical fire alarm would appear to be necessary. If it is for property protection (can't understand why you would want a property protection system for a portacabin but you never know) then by all means install a detection system with an alarm specifically designed to summon fire service help, no need to tip everyone in the main building out.
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Posted By GT
Robert,
Dah !You have lost me!!!
GT
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