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Posted By andymak
Hello all, I have been lurking around these forums for a while gaining insight and information, but have only just got round to registering.
My query is about firework storage, these are not the ones you should be able to find in the shop as they are ceased fireworks and are substandard as they are not made to the appropriate BS / UN standards. I am aware that they are classed as Class 4 Explosives, but do not know what the appropriate storage arrangements should be. Additionally they will be stored alongside petrol samples, and could be in store for significant periods of time.
I have sanned the explosives legislation but am struggling to make head or tail of it!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted By Bob Youel
Why would you want to store such items? and have you spoken to your insurers as I am sure that they would not be happy!
Unfortunately its expensive to dispose of such items. However I advise that you do so
There are many laws etc that cover explosives etc However they still reflect on the question as asked at the begining of this response
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Posted By David J Jones
I do not know the exact requirements for storage of Cat 4 explosives, but one phrase made me shudder - "they will be stored alongside petrol samples". Although not knowing your quantities of "petrol samples" I would strongly recommend you segregate Cat 4 explosives and petrol as a matter of urgency.
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Posted By garyh
Look at L139 HSE ACOP Manufacture and storage of explosives Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005.
I suggest you phone the HSE (anonymously if need be and ask, and quickly!
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Posted By andymak
Suffice to say these items and others are required to be stored and cannot be disposed of for legal reasons.
So the situation has to be managed correctly. There are other flamable items stored there as well such as plastics and other materials, so you can understand my need to ensure an appropriate solution is put into place, to minimise risk to life and property.
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Andy My local council's Trading Standards Dept lost a lot of confiscated goods in a comprehensive fire! As they must have been aware of the type of goods they would need to store, I was surprised that their fire precautions allowed the fire to escalate. I agree with what has already been said; the explosives must be kept separate from flammable materials and the flammable materials must be kept separate from everything else. Proprietary, secure stores are available from suppliers such as Welconstruct - www.welconstruct.co.ukPaul
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Posted By Ron Hunter
andymak: reading between the lines, sounds like you are keeping seized goods until the case comes to court, and you're probably in Trading Standards Enforcement? I honestly can't think of any other reason someone would want to keep defective goods in store, other than for evidential purposes!
I suggest you ask HSE specialists direct - fellow enforcers should help each other out? The answer I suppose depends on quantity, but a suitably marked freight container (which you could hire) should do the trick. I agree with others and I'm sure HSE would say the same - keep the other flammables somewhere else!
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Posted By Eric Taylor
Don't know if this is a dumb question or not but if they are for evidence, why do you have to keep them? Unless there is some question over whether or not they are legal, have appropriate people witness the fact they exist, photograph them etc, etc the get rid in the appropriate manner. I'm sure the court can work from correctly processed photographic evidence.
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Posted By Jeffrey Watt
Eric I thought exactly the same so I asked Spider my tame barrister that question.
He says the case may fail against the owner of the goods, therefore you may need to return the property back to its owner. Seems logical.
Sometimes a judge can offer a bond worth the value of the goods if they need to be destroyed but he says that is rare, the enforcement services should have proper storage arrangements.
Kind regards
Jeff
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Posted By peter gotch
Hi Jeff and Eric,
There's also the question of the prosecution being required to present the "best evidence". The actual article is much better evidence than photos and someone talking to the article.
One HSE Inspector took this to the nth degree and took possession of a machine weighing 10 tonnes. Managed to pursuade court to award costs including craneage, flat bed wagon and secure storage for best part of a year.
Andy.
Extract from DTI guidance for retailers.....
Q: How should fireworks be stored and displayed?
A: There are two ‘Modes’ – sets of rules – for keeping fireworks for sale at registered premises.
_ Mode A requires a safe and secure building or room not attached to a dwelling and used only for storing fireworks, up to a maximum weight of 1000kg.
_ Mode B allows the storage of up to 250kg of fireworks in a building which is also used for other purposes, with strict regulations about how they are contained.
The following details come under Mode B:
_ The maximum amount of fireworks that can be kept in a room where the public might go is 50kg. You can keep fireworks in glass showcases, metal containers, wooden boxes, cupboards or drawers, but these must be locked shut or positioned so that no unauthorised person can reach them. You must not put glass showcases containing fireworks in your shop window.
_ Fireworks over that 50kg limit (up to a further 200kg) can be stored elsewhere in the building but must be kept in closed metal containers. Each container must hold not more than 50kg.
_ Any container being used for storing fireworks must not contain other items. For instance, Bengal Matches must be stored separately.
Useful guidance on DTI and HSE websites.
Regards, Peter
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Posted By andymak
I am not trading standards but do have involvement with buildings they utilise.
Issue is now to be resolved in the next couple of days, basically the fireworks will be stored in a metal shipping container at a remote site more the 100m away from any buildings with the doors facing open land.
Petrol will be disposed of appropriately after sampling, and everything else will be suitably stored in a safe location.
The only other question I have about this, is how would it be best to transport 50 - 60kg of faulty fireworks?
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Posted By Descarte
Just a few questions:
have you checked the shipping container for leaks
are the fireworks being stored off the floor ie. on shelving
is the site and the container secure (im sure if a bunch of kids found em they would be thrilled!)
Do you have to transport them all at the same time?
My ADR bod says you may need an special consent to transport explosives
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
VERY VERY VERY CAREFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would ensure that the walkway between the current and new storage area is clear of any and all obstructions, is marked / barriered off for the duration of the task, restrict access to the area, possibily restricting any other traffic movement during this time, impose an extremely strict no flame policy and also consider wetting the fireworks if at all possible. If using a manual handling aid, would use a non motorised version i.e. no forklift, just an ordinary pump truck.
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Posted By andymak
Thanks for all the advice and information.
The actual distance between new and existing stores is approximately 4 miles. If anyone has an existing transportation plan for this kind of thing I would really appreciate it!
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Posted By Lynne Ratcliffe
Try contacting 33 Engineer Regt, EOD, Carver Barracks, Wimbish. (Corps of Royal Engineers) They specialise in explosives and may well be able to assist. Their MT section should be able to offer advice.
Or alternatively the RLC (Royal Logistics Corp) but i do not know where they base themselves other than Catterick.
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Posted By Lynne Ratcliffe
i am advised to inform you to be very cautious about consiering damping down as different chemicals can react to water and cause a chain reaction which could make things worse.
Last explosive device husband moved was 500lb and it was moved surrounded by sand, unfortunately they do not have a generic moving explosive device document but i am assured that they boys in Wimbish should be able to give you accurate guidance.
another port of call could be DEODS (Defence EOD Training School) Chatham, again Royal Engineers.
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Posted By Ali
Have a quick word with your local fire officer - he /she will tell you what to do with it, how to store it and where to dispose of it safely & legally.
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