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#1 Posted : 01 September 2006 12:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safetynut Have any members of the forum come across a relationship such as this? how did they manage to advise without sounding too bureaucratic especially when the organisation will not have any intentions to make H&S improvements on site. Don’t like paper work, don’t like to spending the profit for site, This organisation employs a Site Manager (sub-contracted) overseeing a few sites at a time leaving sub-contrators to contiue at will. where does his responsibility, liability lie, if and when it all went terrible wrong. A majority of the construction sites do not even meet minimum requirements. Bursting I was too during a visit today. Would appreciate any guidance, ways and means that others have done to persuade and convince which have been sucessful in someway. thanking you in advance
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#2 Posted : 01 September 2006 12:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Could always let HSE know by anon means!
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#3 Posted : 01 September 2006 14:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Eden If the people concerned want to bury their heads in the sand you can't do a lot about them. But Remember We all have a duty of care - what happens when something does go badly wrong, who'se going to tell a reletive their loved one is dead because of a few quid saved here or there. If you have concerns about safety and the client/contactor won't do anything about it contact the HSE and be pesistant.
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#4 Posted : 01 September 2006 15:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis The IOSH Code of Conduct has to be the start point here. A professional's honest independent advice has to be given without specific regard to the potential conflicts of interest, especially if you are a consultant and this is a well paying client. A closer reading could also lead to the position that you should act to ensure so far as possible that the employer is aware of all the potential breaches and a failure to do so becomes a breach of the code of conduct. It is a difficult situation which needs to be left as cleanly as possible if the client/employer etc does not want to know. Bob
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#5 Posted : 08 September 2006 07:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safetynut Thanks for the response's Could someone comment on the SM liability/ responsibility Please
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#6 Posted : 08 September 2006 09:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Davelfc Safety Nut, Though you say they are, Client PS&PC are roled into one the organisation surely have appointed a PS and named PC who has signed the CPH&SP, What do the Compnay Policy and procedures say is the SM working to them, I think you are looking to low in the chain of command. If the SM is all three of the above then evrything is under resourced and poorly planned, with innadequate arrangements.
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#7 Posted : 08 September 2006 10:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safetynut Yes their is an appointed independant PS and the client acts as PC who employees a ground worker also to act as SM on their behalf who visits each site at random acting as SM. I understand that this is poorly planned and under resourced but client at the moment i believe is reluctant to spend the company profit on proper site management. wrong i know. To satisfy my own mind i would like to have some guidance here to approach the client with on this matter. Surely the SM has some form of resposibility although when asked this person has been given no formal contract for this position other than a sub-contract order for the groundwork. Since this initial posting we believe that there is no company policy and procedures in place and understand progress is made in this respect. So where does the above SM stand? no contract, no liability
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#8 Posted : 08 September 2006 12:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By mrs.seed what is your relationship to the project? I am guessing you are not part of the organisation or you would have internal tools you could use to sort this. But if you are not part of the organisation and they are Client/developer/Principal contractor that only leaves the Planning supervisor. Your relationship will have a bearing on what action you can take.
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#9 Posted : 08 September 2006 16:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie Safetynut, It is not uncommon in the house building sector for "the house builder" to fulfil any combination and often all of the roles defined in the CDM Regulations. Each role is usually split, as an internal division of responsibilities, between the various board directors. If you have a problem with H&S standards on site the Principal Contractor is the 'person' to address your concerns to. The PC is responsible for ensuring that H&S on site is properly managed. Generally in my experience the Construction Directors team will be charged with fulfilling the role of PC and the Project/Site manager will be the PC's public face. If you don't get any joy with the PC you could try the MD of the company (who normally fulfils to role of Client) as he is in overall change of the organisation. Or a tip of to the local HSE office if you want to remain anonymous.
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#10 Posted : 08 September 2006 17:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Vickers It appears that the CDM issue is the least of their worries, as it is just a reflection of the overall approach to H&S. Much of CDM is seen to be bureaucratic but becomes less so if general H&S has been attended to. The big issue is the responsibility of the designer under CDM who has to advise his client (whether or not CDM applies to the project) of his duties under CDM. If the designer does not do this then he is in breach of the regs. So far as your SM friend's position is concerned his exposure to prosecution would arise as a result of his competence and authority froma H&S viewpoint. If he is competent but, having brought matters to the attention of the client/ developer/ PC, no action has been taken then his authority would appear to be limited. However it is not a position which I would tolerate. He should (if he is competent) walk away and sell his skills elsewhere. Hope you're not the SM in question. Regards SV
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#11 Posted : 08 September 2006 18:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safetynut This company employs only 2 direct an MD and PA. and no i am not the SM a potential adviser but i have not come across a situation such as this before and wondering what i am letting myself in for.
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#12 Posted : 12 September 2006 13:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By DJ A visit to the Magistrates normally does the trick, particularly if they then decline jurisdiction and reserve the matter for a 'proper' judge. Regards. DJ
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