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Posted By Richard Altoft
After a journey of twenty miles on country roads with, for most of that time two different drivers on my rear bumper using a hand held phone for well over 15 minutes each whilst driving at best with one hand and some of the time with no hands at all on the wheel I have to ask what do we do about these idiots. It is impossible to safely take notes or make a 999 call and it is also imperative not to lose one's own concentration. With one driver I have another info memorised to do a quick google and a Companies House search and so write to their MD by name at their Head Office (writing as MD of my own Co) expressing concern that they allow such antics and pointing out the potential for civil and criminal action against Co, directors and managers if found to be complicit or involved. What, however do we do about the private drivers without adding to the risk they already pose to our children, to themselves and to society at large??????????.
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Posted By Is Kismet
Personally I would have slowed down and let them pass.
Be a bit difficult, time consuming and very stressful reporting everybody who committed a driving offence - don't you think?
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Posted By Richard Altoft
Yes I agree if it had simply been a speeding driver so perhaps I am wrong in being selective about what worries me.
However letting an unsafe act pass IF i can intervene safely even if after the event is not my style but what is the safe intervention ??
I would not want to spend time on every offence ( I have made mistakes myself in the past) but activities that kill surely require some response. But what should that be ??
As they say "for evil to succeed all it takes is for good men to do nothing". (sorry that is gender specific but I did not write it)
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Posted By Is Kismet
You could consider joining the traffic police!
I can imagine that would be a very satisfying job for someone who feels strongly about traffic offences.
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Posted By Paul Costelloe CMIOSH
Richard,
Richard,
I agree there's a lot of drivers out there who seem to leave their brain at home when they get behind the wheel.
However, bear in mind that driving is an occupational hazard, and mounting a one-man crusade to try and educate the rest of them exposes you to a very real risk of being a victim of road-rage.
Take care - it's jungle out there !
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Posted By Paul Costelloe CMIOSH
Richard,
I agree there's a lot of drivers out there who seem to leave their brain at home when they get behind the wheel.
However, bear in mind that driving is an occupational hazard, and mounting a one-man crusade to try and educate the rest of them exposes you to a very real risk of being a victim of road-rage.
Take care - it's jungle out there !
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Posted By Richard Altoft
IS,
I am too happy and certainly too well paid as a H&S pro to change careers now.
Paul,
I am very lucky as I never suffer from road rage but I do not like to see danger in any form go unaddressed. Which is why I asked the question. What if anything can be done safely when unsafe behaviour on the road is observed. Has anyone got suggestions or answers to this particular problem?
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Posted By Paul Costelloe CMIOSH
Richard,
I was referring to you potentially suffering from someone else's road rage !
Paul
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Posted By PRH
Ah you see, that old problem of making laws that do not make any sense to the "peeps" and then not having a practicable means to encourage behavioural change or ultimately enforce them leads to violation becoming a norm.
The guy who did my def driving training all those years ago said you cannot or should not try to control others on the road because it ain't your job, you can influence them by your driving style but otherwise it can be incredibly dangerous for you to get involved.
If you recognise danger, avoid it, move away, find an escape route. I have used that advice ever since.
Make the report if it meets your ethical needs. I have to say that they will most likely listen politely, put down the phone and smile,(another stupid geek-did u get his reg so we can wind him up tomorrow) It was probably them on the phone to the driver anyway. Just a sweeping, cynical generalisation about haulage and courier companies, so no replies required thank you.
Then most importantly when you get home:
indulge in a G&T or glass of merlot or pint of old worthless or cup of tea or kick the cat or suck a coffee through a kitkat or enjoy one of Mervs recipes or start a Friday thread or one of the other multifarious things that elfand saferty peeps appear to do to relax (according to this forum anyway) and then drive defensively tomorrow.
p.s can I have your mobile number in case I need to call you tomorrow?? (smile)
PRH
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Posted By Richard Altoft
Sorry Paul I missed that, I agree the need is for a safe way to intervene after the event. I do not for example make calls myself in the car even though I have hands free and even if I recieve a call when in the office from someone I suspect is on a car phone I agree a time to call them back and ring off.
Should we all pledge that as professionals we will set an example?
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
Lead by example and hope it catches on. Safety belts did!!! Matter of time.
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Posted By PRH
Richard, a slightly more serious response 'cos this is obviously bugging you tonight.
The point for me is an effective way for an individual to intervene, is there one for a single traffic violation? I seriously doubt it. As I said in my earlier posting, do it if it feels the right thing to do. But, I dont think it would stop people using their phones even if say 30% of all IOSH members phoned every day.
As an example of the depth of the problem of phone use. I followed a car along one of our splendid roads the other day. Suddenly we were all so surprised to actually see a police vehicle that everyone slowed down to stay behind or alongside so that they could have a good look to remind themselves what they actually look like. The guy in front of me was so excited that he phoned someone on his mobile to tell them what was going on. Did the occupants of said vehicle intervene? No. ( Seriously, I actually did see a driver take/make a phone call whilst following a police patrol car for about 2 miles and no intervention.)
PRH
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Posted By MB
Richard, I would suggest that it is only when individuals are reported that action can be taken. The company that I work for has recently received numerous complaints about a drivers dangerous driving and since been suspended (on full pay) until a disiplinary meeting can take place next week. Knowledge is the key, how can we manage safety correctly if we are not aware of what is going on. We can provide training etc, but can not possibly know what is going on all of the time off site, if it were not for members of the public taking action and getting involved we would be none the wiser.
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Posted By TBC
In a journey of fifty miles the other day I saw at least 10 drivers on the phone. One woman with kids in the back on the school run – hope they made it she ran a red light, the rest a mix of heavy goods, white van men and what looked like reps. One guy was no sooner off the phone and then trying to get past everybody, he couldn't wait and undertook on the hard shoulder does anybody care or where are the cops when you want one. A patrol car did go past going the other way whilst one driver was on the phone - I flashed him and pointed out the driver and he just waved back. I've even seen cops on the phone and speeding on some country roads – one rule for them and the law against us.
I'd love the job of 'doing' people for phone use whilst driving. It would be on a commission basis and then I can retire early – very early.
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Posted By Richard Altoft
MB makes a good point and as a construction manager on major sites in my previous life in last ditch cases of persistent bad behaviour where usual sanctions had failed(often delivery drivers speeding for example)I would find the finanace or sales director and ring him to tell him how much business would be lost immediately on the next observation of a violation. Hence my comment in my opening posting that as a MD I find it very effective to write to MDs when all other options have failed. MDs love to blame and be seen to be effective whereas middle managers and lower ones simply spout excuses or shrug shoulders and say "well thats life" etc.The non identified drivers are less easy and I agree we should all as safety professionals be setting an example.
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Posted By holmezy
Hi all,
the problem seems to be thats its a law brought in for the good of the people, but without the resources to enforce it, ie boys (or girls) in blue.
If the local constabulary would like to provide me with an un marked car with video camera facilities, then I would quite happily drive up and down motorways, along "A" roads, all over the place taking video evidence of offenders. I think if I charged a flat fee of £10 per offence videoed, I might just be able to make a living! Might even be able to work part time!
Anyone fancy joining my new venture?
Holmezy
soon be alcoholoclock!
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Posted By Is Kismet
I feel a point has been missed here.
Looked at another way, you have obviously been worrying/fuming (or whatever words suit) about those behind you. Can you be certain that it has not affected your driving ability or driving decisions?
If you had slowed down and let them pass you wouldn't have had 20 miles of stress on your back, and perhaps been a better driver for it.
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Posted By jonr
I had such a driver following me for a while and it is a bit unnerving. It is fine for the government to introduce these laws but unfortunately over the last few years they have also decimated the traffic police section. Who is left to enforce this laws, or dangerous drivers, or my pet hate, people with unsecured children in the car? The question of mobile phone use is only an issue if someone is killed. The next time you are on a motorway, check out how many police you pass. Those that are left are being supplemented by Highways Agency traffic officers, who have no police powers. It is a toothless law as the odds of being caught and prosecuted are minimal.
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Posted By Richard Altoft
IS,
there is in general terms much sense in what you say and the effect on other drivers is another aspect of "bad behaviours" both in terms of annoyance and of course of reinforcing the bad behaviour amongst those who are unable to distinquish between desirable and undesirable for themselves. In my own case as an advanced level qualification driver and a trained observer then I feel it did not influence my driving. There was no attempt by me to stop others overtaking and I drove on the speed limits at each stage unless traffic conditions dictated otherwise. In fact I might have been acting as a control or as "advanced warning" for these drivers by driving with care and with clear indication of conditions ahead, intention to slow down etc but that was not intended as an intervention into their behaviours whilst on the move.
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Posted By TBC
Just a thought - What if we as a group of H&S aware colleagues were to note down very carefully all the registrations of every vehicle we saw either driving whilst on the phone or with children sat in the front/back without restraint. We would then all call our local cop shop and report them all at the same time on a specified day. We would also make them aware that this was happening throughout the country. Would they then take notice?
Or would it be better to phone our MPs – No, on second thoughts, they don’t know whether they are coming or going these days.
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Posted By Is Kismet
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, IMHO the whole matter would have been resolved by slowing down and letting the vehicles behind go by. Thereby reducing the stress to yourself, and maybe even them!
And the idea of reporting all those who commmit traffic offences .... Come on guys.
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Posted By sagalout
Sorry if this is abit wobblie but i AM trying to contribute to this thread via my new BlackCURRANT uplink mobile phone and hands3 LAPtop, I am getting borewd whilst waiting for the traffic on THE M 123 to speed up AGIN! to 85 mph, goign at 65 just aint cool isIT, speshully wen u got a rumaenien truck on the phone behind u*?
Sorry but I have far more acheivable H&S things to get done, I agree something needs to be sorted, better enforcement traffic laws or change them but that is politics, my MP agrees and she will do the campaigning, not me. Till then , I drive as defensively as I can, that keeps me safe as possible and helps others around me. If I had been that bothered by the guy behind me, I would have gone some place else.
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Posted By Is Kismet
Cool bro.
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Posted By jackw.
Hi. ah the good old brit driver... my fav one..guy comming round the roundabout just up from my office.. mobile in one hand ciggy in other hand..trying to smoke, use tel, drive and change gearat the same time.,.i just stopped and let him go..
oh called him later with the address of a juggling coach..or was it an undertaker oh well back to the 30 min drive home..have a nice..and of course safe weekend.
cheers
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Posted By Tony Batty
While we are on the subject, anyone seen any particular guidelines concerning plant drivers operating plant and using mobile phones at the same time?
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Posted By G-man
i would rather someone was on their phone than me being mugged or my car being broke into...police have more important tasks to take care of than pulling over cars every 5 seconds
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Posted By Brett Day
I had a conversation with a traffic officer pre this law and in his opinion it didn't make any difference as his force were prosecuting drivers using hand held mobiles under 'Driving without due care and attention' and 'Failure to be properly in control of a vehicle'.
His feeling was that this was a law brought in to be seen doing something and felt that if HMG was really serious about road safety (not just mobile drivers) they would be putting more traffic patrols out instead of reducing traffic departments.
As an slightly off topic comment I came across a vehicle belonging to a national groundworks contractor thursday night on the M25 that was so muddy it was spraying mud and stones all over the road and other cars, one headlamp out of alignment dazzling other drivers. So I contacted thier general e-mail address and complained cc'd to local police.
Will be interesting to see the reaction.
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Posted By Tony Batty
In the press recently the action taken by someone seeing someone on their mobile phone while driving, was to follow them, see where they lived then slash their tyres because they felt the police were not doing enough. Simple, no hands free, don't pick up!
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Posted By Ian P
I support the ban on mobile use and have extended it to hands free for work but i can't help being as cynical as Brett's traffic policeman that this is a law for show.
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Posted By Mark Mace
Richard,
If this bothers you as much as it bothers me report them directly to the police, hopefully if you complain loudly enough then something may get done, but unfortunately the police generally do not have the available manpower.
Your option of speaking/writing to MD's is far more likely to get action and i personally would commend your actions.
AT the end of all the discussions if a driver collects your child/wife/mother/father/husband/relative/ETC whilst not properly in control of his/her vehicle (wether it be a mobile phone or any other reason) punishing them after the fact will not bring your child/wife/mother/father/husband/relative/ETC back. Maybe we should report them when we can!!!
We can only attempt to impart our knowledge of risk assessment to the masses, if we all do it often enough then we may win in the end.
Regards to ALL
Tony
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Posted By Sheila EJ Keogh
I agree with Richard's sentiments. These igorant drivers could seriously injure or kill somebody that is close to us and then we might wish that we had taken preventive action. I have always thought we should make a mental note of the registration no & report it to the police.I'm sure many will disagree....
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Posted By sagalout
But, are we not on the verge of acting like the Safety Police that Mr Clarkson and others believe we are if we "take a stand" over this single, specific issue? Anyone who drives any distance each day will understand that this situation is completely out of control.
I would have to write to at least 15 MD's each day and /or make reports to the police if I were to accept that it is expected of me as a safety professional. Not that I would shy from that workload if I believed just for one minute that it would make any difference.
Choosing the right fight is an important consideration in any campaign. I just don't think this is one we should choose right now.
A just cause maybe, wrong time, definitely.
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Posted By jackw.
Personally I couldn't care less what loud mouthed, bully boy, irrelevant boors etc like MR Clarkson think or say. The evidence is overwhelming. mobile tel whilst driving is dangerous = possible deaths, injuries. I am not keen on my house being broken into, or being mugged. But I am also definitely not in favour of some moron (unfortunately usually in a "posh" car,) slamming into me or causing me to slam into some other innocent.
Remember going through a windscreen hurts!!!!
Cheers
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Posted By sagalout
Only if you are not wearing your seat belt and do not have the airbags that my vehicle does. (chuckle, chuckle)
I am serious, I said just cause after all.
I will watch with interest to see how effective the actions that are proposed in this thread are in reducing the incidence of unlawful and/or illegal practices.
Perhaps it would be helpful for those of us who yet remain to be convinced if someone reports back on their experiences on the practical application of this approach?
p.s. I hope, for your personal safety, you never get said Mr C behind you in his latest toy, especially if he is using his phone!
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Posted By TBC
On my travels again yesterday - lots of people on the phone again motorway and country roads, passengers talking on the phone whilst driver is filling at petrol station. One elderly gent behind me on a country road on the phone, taking a roundabout like it was a fifty pence piece and then overtaking me and the car in front whilst going through a village with twisting bends and a thirty limit. Phoned the police - can't do anything about. Why? I have no independent witness and I could have a grunge against the person - Yes I have now, he could have caused some serious damage if someone had come out turn right and didn't check to left first.
I must chill more.
Imust chill more.
IIMusst chill moreee.
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Posted By GJB
I think I need to get out more?!
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Posted By TBC
Don't do it - it's not safe out there!!!!!!!!!
Just when you think you've seen everything. Van man's latest - Drive with one elbow whilst picking your nose. The other hand and arm? - well that's on the phone of course.
Now a question - was he actually picking his nose or feeling around for his brain?
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Posted By Brian John Abbs
Almost taken off the bike this morning by a motorist who had decided to pull over to carry out their phone conversation.
Unfortunately they had decided to pull over to the side of the road and keep moving at 5mph rather than stop and put the handbrake on.
As I was passing, the driver decided that their original plan wasn't a good one, accelerated to 40mph and moved back into the center of the carriageway, almost sending me into the barrier.
My point is, as much as using a mobile while driving is illegal and dangerous and should be stamped out, stupidity is the larger factor in this case.
With research, I think it possible to prove a correlation between poor driving standards and the LIKELIHOOD of using a phone while driving. Or, in more direct terms, the people who use mobiles while driving are more likely to have an accident anyway.
Am I wrong?
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Posted By John Lewis
What is the insurance status of a driver who runs in the back of you whilst on a mobile 'phone? Do they pay out ? (always assuming he has insurance anyway).
Perhaps an opportunity to cynically get a new motor. Brake hard in traffic in front of a newish car when the driver is on the 'phone. Then claim for whiplash as well as a new vehicle.
That'll learn em ............ or perhaps not.
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Posted By MT
I can beat yours TBC - I was nearly taken out in a head-on collision with a lorry, the driver of which was holding his mobile phone with one hand and his cigarette with the other. As I'm in Scotland, both are illegal.
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