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#1 Posted : 12 October 2006 22:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By JohnR Can anyone tell me where I can get a definitive answer to the question of what size door equates to any given number of people being able to pass through in an emergency situation. Per minute or however it may be measured. (E.G. a 1050mm door will allow 80 persons per minute to pass through [if indeed that is even remotely close]). Thanking you for your help in advance. JohnR
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#2 Posted : 12 October 2006 23:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By sagalout John, are you asking a different question than the matters covered in section 4 of the guides on Fire Safety Risk Assessment? If you haven't looked at these find them at http://www.communities.gov.uk Section 4 in each of the different guides is "further guidance on escape routes" and includes information on doors.
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#3 Posted : 12 October 2006 23:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By JohnR Hi Sagalout .... Thanks for the reply. Yes I have looked in the guides, but they do not as far as I have been able to see, give any indication of the projected throughput of any given door size. What I am trying to determine is, E.G. if I have a room/area of known capacity (amount of people allowed to be there at any one time) that has a certain amount of exits, what should be the minimum size of those doors to allow the maximum occupancy level to exit safely, if one of those doors is blocked by a fire. I hope that I have made this question a little clearer. I may have to ask the question differently if its not making the sense that I wanted it to do. JohnR
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#4 Posted : 13 October 2006 00:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By sagalout I think the answer is there but I am reading it as a practitioner and engineer, not as a fire safety specialist. It tells you that a 750mm door can accommodate "x" people in the three different risk categories and repeats this for 1050mm doors. It goes on further down the page to tell you that if you have two or more exits you must always assume the widest has been compromised. So the principle for me is that the safe MAXIMUM that a 750mm door/ safe route can accommodate is 120 persons in a low risk environment. Of course this may be reduced by the other factors covered in the guide. Hopefully one of the other guys who regularly respond to fire questions will put us right if we have misread it?
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#5 Posted : 13 October 2006 00:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By JohnR Thanks again for the reply. The safe Maximum of 120 persons that you identify, relates to what exactly? How long would it supposedly take those 120 people to evacuate the building through that door? I may be sounding thick here, but interpreted literally (and I know that this is totally wrong) if you are person 121, then you cant get out ???? The information cant logically only relate to the number of people allowed to be inside the building, unless that figure relates in some way, to the time potentially required to get them safely out. I do also appreciate that in all of the calculations, that the largest door would normally be considered as compromised for any evacuation calculations. JohnR
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#6 Posted : 13 October 2006 09:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven John Are you getting too deep into this issue, why do you need to know how many people can go through a certain size door at a certain frequency (i.e. 120 people per minute for a 750mm door) I believe the guidance gives you enough information to establish if your existing escape routes are wide enough and if you have sufficient quantities. Your fire drills will establish whether the time to evacuate the building is sufficient, we look at having total evacuation in 2 minutes of the alarm being sounded. I do hope you manage to get the answer you are looking for, I'm sure someone will know the answer. Steve Steve
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#7 Posted : 13 October 2006 09:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven just to say the evacuation time of 2 minutes is for our building and this will vary dependant on building/site size. steve
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#8 Posted : 13 October 2006 10:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By JohnR Hi again. Thanks to all that have taken the time to answer my quandary. The reason for all of this mental anguish is quite simple really. A local converted cinema, now used for various and differing functions etc, had a maximum occupancy level put upon it by its examining Fire Officer. With this information, it obtained its operating Licence. This of course related to the size and number of available exits. Quite recently, another examining Fire Officer has made the statement the the total number of acceptable occupants is now considerably lower. With nothing changed from the original assessment, made by his colleague. This is why we now need to have an understanding of how many people can be safely expected to pass through a given door size. JohnR
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#9 Posted : 13 October 2006 10:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven John Ask the Fire Officer what Regulation/standard he is referring to when establishing the new occupancy levels. It might be that the previous Fire Officer got it wrong!! Steve
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