Posted By John Lewis That got your attention. Right, "a friend" has found that the Fire detection system in his factory has been turned off since 08.00 this morning so that dust created by contractors does not trip the alarms and "cause inconvenience for the staff". We are talking SYSTEM here not just sounders; automatic detection, call points everything powered down!!!!!! My friend has a stack of stuff already relating to Fire Reform Act, failing to provide a safe system of work, Insurance null and void etc. can you guys add any other useful bits; in particular evidence of people going to jail for such offences.

Posted By Merv Newman 1. If you are the H&S person then you SHOULD have been involved in the decision loop. I don't say that it would have been YOUR decision. But you should have been asked for your advice. Then SENIOR management would have decided what to do. (sorry about the caps but I feel very strongly about this !!!!) 2. It can (does) happen that systems have to be taken down for maintenance or repair. That's life (Esther Ranzen circa 1932) Preferably before, but at least when, you must inform your insurers and ask their advice. 3. The real question is "what happens if it all goes so horribly, horribly wrong ?" I have often asked the local fire station if they could park a pumper with crew on our premises for an hour or two. They were usually happy to oblige (it's a boring life unless you need to put your life at risk) They come with the proviso that if something goes pear shaped elsewhere then they gotago. Fine. You plug that into your planning. Free tea/coffee, free lunch (as much as you can eat and by eck can they eat !) guided tour around the plant and tea and biscuits with the plant manager. And a donation to the widows and orphans. The last was £100. But when we reallyreally need them I know they will be here. The only time we really called them was when someone smelt burning in one of the corridors. Smell was confirmed but source was not traced. So we called them. They came and found a fag end smouldering in a plant pot. Laughs and coffee all round. I paid. Merv

Posted By Ken Taylor With a decent modern system, you could just 'turn off' detection in the zone in which the contractors are working - and then have a temporary alternative measure (such as a person present to activate a nearby call-point). The age-old remedy for dusty contractors was plastic bags over the detectors.

Posted By Ashley Wood If the alarm system has been switched off i.e power off and batteries disconnected and no other arrangements made to safeguard the work force i.e fire watchers, air horns etc, then this building represents a life hazard. It would be a foolish person who did this without putting into place some temporary arrangements. Could the work not have been done at a time when the building manning levels are reduced i.e weekends or evenings? Even then, measures must be taken to protect the workers and contractors. It is normal to provide a person to watch over the contractors i.e fire watcher, wardens to walk the building and alternative ways to sound the alarm i.e air horns.