Posted By Dave Wilson Just been asked for my certificate of training in roof access to go on a flat roof to look at a job, which incidentally is surrounded with fall protection anyway! anyone heard of this or is someone taking the P

Posted By Tomek Sladden Hi Dave, it sounds familiar. I work in the public sector services and although I do think that we have created quite an ugly creature in the way we must cover our own backs, I can see where these competent people are coming from. Sorry that is how I see it. Tom

Posted By Gilles27 Excellent. I do not know of a certificated course covering how not to fall over roof protection. I would love a to meet a physio who could do a course to actually help me fall off roof protection as I can't seem to get my leg over these days. Totally mad DW. At least they are competent enough to ask you to look at the job. They may have originally erected the roof protection so the caretaker didn't fall off when he was doing the removal. Somebody therefore competent called you in, but unfortunately somebody incompetent met you at reception. (Err, perhaps thats another Thread...) Anwar - I can only afford £500 for the half day course I am afraid. Is it available on line? I have been off line for a while but am back now for sensible madness.

Posted By Gilles27 They are all in the gulf/afghanistan/window cleaning trade. Its all up to Dave now. Make sure you take a first aider with you just in case of nose bleeds due to the altitude. j

Posted By David S Burt I totally agree with what Chris has said about the typical hazards that you find on roof areas. I have also developed and deliver courses related to Roof working for telecoms installation (2nd and 3rd generation comms) and other companies. The problem here is that while this allows for people to understand the various hazards that may be on roof areas it is not site specific. Every roof that I have been on is different and there is the need to develop a location specific SSW before the work is undertaken. In order to develop a SSW there is the need to know what the specific hazards actually are. Contractors are good but they need to be supplied with the hazard information before they step foot on your site. Based on the Client supplied information the contractor can and will be able to produce a site specific SSW which they can and should supply to the Client for approval before access to the roof area is allowed. If they cannot produce a Site Specific SSW it must raise questions over their competence. The major issue here is that a significant number of Clients do not supply 3rd parties with any hazard information before they start the work and a lot of contractors do not ask for this information. No site information means no satisfactory SSW. Rather than asking for worthless pieces of paper from 3rd parties why not provide sufficient and accurate information to your contractors before the start of the works. The inclusion of drawings or even photo's with the location of the known hazards identified would also help. Is this over the top? the short answer is No because it will allow you to discharge your existing duties under the HASAWA etc. In doing this the business risk to the organisation is controlled. The above simple process should be applied to all works that any 3rd party carries out on any part of your site and not just roofs. Education of Clients and Contractors is the key here. BTW If you want belt and braces for roof work then following the review of the 3rd parties SSW why not issue a Permit to Access the Roof (Not to be confused with a PTW)?

Posted By Ian D. Hi Dave S What do you mean "sadly from the people who ask for a PtoW for working on a roof". What is wrong with asking for a permit to go onto the roof? as a safety manager I would not allow a builder to pull up in his van, get his ladder off his van place it against the wall and walk straight onto the roof. I need to know what he is doing, when, why, is it the right time and who's doing it. With the deaths from falls at height I make no apologies for insisting on PtoW for roof work or other working at height. Regards Ian

Posted By David S Burt Ian, With the utmost respect can I suggest that you review my posting of this morning on this matter. In there I do make reference to Permits to Access which are completely different from PTW. I also make specific reference to the need for Clients like yourself to supply sufficient information to contractors before they arrive at your site so that they can develop a SSW. As a general rule a PTW is not required for working on roofs. A SSW is essential for Roof Work and as explained in my posting a Permit to Access may be appropriate for some sites. I hope the above clarifies the situation