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#1 Posted : 07 November 2006 15:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark McFarlane Has anyone introduced it as a disciplinary offence for a member of staff to refuse to evacuate when fire alarm is activated and instructed to do so by a fire warden/marshall?
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#2 Posted : 07 November 2006 15:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Devlin Its should already be part of your conduct code. Any failure to comply with a health and safety rule or instruction in the organisation should be dealt with as gross misconduct and the person dealt with accordingly. You'll find anyone sacked after refusing to obey such a directive will get short thrift if they try and claim unfair dismissal.
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#3 Posted : 07 November 2006 15:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Doe I'd have to say it's an implicit thing. s.7 duties on employee require they co-operate with the employer. That stuff'll be covered in Conditions Of Employment, I expect. Emergency procedures figure in this. Of course, you need to make sure they had no good reason to refuse to co-operate. I can't think of a good reason but it's worth ruling out, just in case. Could be embarrassing if procedures hadn't been explained or countless failures in the alarm system underlie it all.
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#4 Posted : 07 November 2006 16:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By TONY I had a similar incident when i worked for a blue chip company. The Director refused to leave his office the way i dealt with ot was to draft a formal letter to the Managing Director stating that if this happended in a real fire he would go to Jail. Message was understood then and the Director got a severe telling off. Good luck
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#5 Posted : 07 November 2006 16:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve e ashton Early in my career, I arranged a full emergency drill for the lab block at the site I worked. The drill included a full turn-out and exercise by the works fire crew (trained to the standards of public retained crews). Two dummies (live volunteers)were placed for the fire crew to find and retrieve. It should have come as no surprise to the manager who remained at his post (taking a 'very important' phone call) when the crew burst into his office, drenched him and his desk with the hose they were leading, and forcefully removed him from the building. But it seems that it did. Fortunately the works manager sided with the crew sub officer responsible, and no further action was taken other than a very stern word to the manager concerned about his commitment and future involvement in emergency procedures. Not that I'm recommending this approach you understand...
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#6 Posted : 07 November 2006 17:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney All places I've worked the Fire Wardens ask the people who are not evacuating if they know its an alarm and are they able to leave on their own. If they do and can and don't evacuate then their names are given in report to CX/MD or equivalent. Senior Managers deal with this. So far no one sacked but written warnings given and on their records - no excuse accepted (unless they were waiting for assistance). If they haven't recognised the alarm, procedures etc looked at.
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#7 Posted : 07 November 2006 17:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Malcolm Greenhouse I once dealt with a case of first line managers who were slow to evacuate when a real fire alarm went off. I had some sympathy with them because the shift pattern worked meant that they had not taken part in a fire drill before as managers. However because they had been trained in the classroom 14 months earlier they were both demoted to operative duties. They took their case to E.T. and lost.
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#8 Posted : 07 November 2006 17:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Aidan Toner QUOTE-QUOTE-QUOTE -Any failure to comply with a health and safety rule or instruction in the organisation should be dealt with as gross misconduct and the person dealt with accordingly-. Happy to go along with the last bit of the statement, not so sure i want to be charged with gross misconduct IF I don't sit straight in my chair whilst typing this e-mail.
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#9 Posted : 07 November 2006 18:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I have enormouse difficulties getting factoriess to actually run evacuation exercises. "how many cars is that going to cost us ?" Even though it is a legal requirement to do an "everyone out !" twice a year. I used to run the two-a-year in the UK and scored the number of probable deaths as a result of not responding or going back for the coat or the handbag. Best case was a sales manager talking to a client. Finger in left ear, asking customer to speak up as there was a klaxon going off. He was also dictating customer comments to his (captive) secretary. Name and shame. Name and shame. Merv
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#10 Posted : 07 November 2006 21:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By shaun mckeever Funny enough I had a discussion with a company Chief Executive today. I had been pre-informed that he refuses to evacuate when the fire alarm goes off. He was unaware that I knew. I started off by telling him that I was carrying out a FRA and I just needed to assess staff response to emergency situations. I asked him what he would do if he were the one discovering a fire. After realising that he didn't know (he even suggested using a water extinguisher on an electrical fire) I suggested that he should raise the alarm - Ahh yes he said, I knew that. That's good, where is your nearest fire alarm call point?....ummm! You get the drift. I turned to the evacuation. 'Which exit route do you use?'. He said 'the main stairs'. 'But that is not your nearest exit'. 'Do you know where your nearest exit is?'....ummmm! Other questions as part of the fire risk assessment that were asked - How long does the evacuation take? Are you achieving the recommended 2.5 mins? If not do you know why? Do you feedback to your staff areas for improvement? How do you deal with staff who delay their evacuation? Have you made it a disciplinary offence? Do you think it appropriate for firefighters, who also have families, to risk their life because someone has deliberately ignored a fire alarm? This line of questioning can be done in a manner that is not confrontational but in a softly softly manner. I find that it tends to focus the mind of those being asked the questions.
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