Posted By Allan Curran
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I work for a large retailer as their H&S Advisor.

Anyway, part of the problem that I have is that at any one time, 50% of the store emergency exits are blocked/obstructed by stock.

Now, I have spoken to the managers of those area's so much now that its obvious they are just paying me lip service, I get their life stories and excuses. But the bigger problem is that when I go to my line managers and tell them they are more interested in not offending anyone.

I've produced reports and risk assessments highlighting the dangers and the benefits etc etc and all they whittle on about not upsetting people, because ultimatley they put profit ahead of everything.

So its now at the stage where I have said that if they wont help, or at least help me in part to implement my ideas to resolve the situation I will have to log this in the Fire Risk Assessment book, as going around in circles finding the same exits blocked and speaking to the same people, is just a waste of time.

Of course, as usual their more bothered about my direct approach rather than the impending disaster that awaits then.

At the same time staff are complaining and looking to me to resolve it for them, but I can only advise and not dictate.

On the other hand, I'm not getting my backsise kicked because they didnt listen, hence the entry in the Fire Risk Assessment.

What would you do?

Posted By Allan Curran
As it happens I am looking for another job.I self financed myself to do the Nebosh Diploma and within two days of being back at work after my first block release week I was told 'not to get to big for my boots'. So I guess that sums it up.

I've been doing the job for about 8 months and acted as deputy for a while before that.

They take my advice when they want it, but when it involves tackling the 'its not my problem' culture or an incentive that takes them away from putting money in the tills, they just dont want to know.

There are many reasons for it being the way it is.
Part of it is because the managers are under pressure to get results and are tunnel visioned, some are just ignorant of the importance of it because they just dont think it happens to them, another reason is because its a fairly wishy washy be careful not to offend culture and partly because my predessor spent most of her time clearing exits for them and they expect me to do the same. I dont believe thats what its about (I do enough picking up after the kids at home, thats not the right culture to have.

Posted By steven bentham
Allan

Looking for another job is often a good option. (I've had a few)and no one wants to work for a poor employer.

However, you are assuming that you are working for the only bad employer; what are you going to do when you get in the next job and find things that are similar or worse?

It may be worth having a "Plan B"- just in case your new job does not come off.

If you think the blocked fire exits is your significant risk then set a game plan to deal with this; you may have already -


- look for blockers and supporters, they cant be all bad;
- find something (perhaps not a fire issue) that wins support;

- agreed a team of 'fire/safety people';
- give them some basic training in fire/safety;
- agree clear safety targets (clear fire exits etc);
- undertake joint audits;
- include digital photographs of hot-spots;
- publish results (good & bad)via CEO;
- make sure all stores/managers understand if were their strenghts and weaknesses are;
- push for a 2nd year review;

Dig out the video of store fires (I think woollies in Manchester had blocked exits and a loss of life fire - I may have got the wrong store);

Go along to your IOSH Group, get support, get support inside the company.

There is a very good book on Fire/Arson its been out a few years, I could get the details if you contact me direct.

Do more and detailed research, develop a degree of expertise and keep at them until they give up!

If you do all of the above and it goes wrong, then you can stand up and say you have done your best; leave the managers to stand up and explain why they could do no more.

Good luck
Steve

Posted By Pugwash
Good advice from Steve and Raymond and I see there is a new thread from George Guy broadening the discussion. You might well find the same problem elsewhere but going elsewhere and experiencing it for yourself (rather than being told by others) can be a valuable experience.

Perhaps a question you should be asking is whether the problem you are experiencing is caused by your managers or by you not adopting an appropriate style and techniques to influence them. It is important to be seen as part of the management team sharing their values and aspirations for the company. If they have suggested that you might get "too big for your boots" perhaps this says a lot about how they perceive you. Is this an organisation where people who "get things done rather than just talk" are valued? Perhaps they valued your predecessor because of her hands-on approach to solving problems. Maybe, at least initially, you need to do more of that and perhaps win greater confidence from the management team. Be seen as one of them and then from that position begin to change the culture of the company using some of the techniques Steve suggests.

Finally I sense that you are already well motivated, are developing the skills you will need and are on the way to becoming a good health and safety professional. Keep at it. I do feel that a change of job might help you broaden you experience and help you develop your skills in influencing people.

Posted By Davelfc
Allan,

Some good sound advice particularly like what Merve said, two things don't give up and walk away, and base on 18001.

What you need to do if it is inherent across the business is take it to senior management raise the issue (root cause is there not enough storage space or are store management and staff being idle)but give them a solution.

Also on the monitoring and checking do, you have authority to bring in new procedures and records if so it may be worth bringing in some sort of non compliance notice or an action notice. There needs to be some sort of recourse if these people are working outside company policy, if the problems are not in the policy put something in.

It may be that you need to give the store managers some kind of internal inspection regime that you check on your inspection. if they are missing the point on there inspection then this should be highlighted. If they are accountable then they may just solve the problem internally.

Its about accountability and it sounds like certain individuals don't appear to feel responsible so put some thing in the policy about roles and responsibilities maybe it is a case of KPI's and store league tables that may be another long term solution and any other areas that need putting right that are inherent in the company that can be included.

If you emial me direct I will send you an action notice and inspection checklist that is not for your industry but you maybe able to use it fills the loop on inspection and monitoring and also non compliance and preventative measures, they are things that I have created and fit my work place in construction high rise, but are not rocket science and can be tailored to any industry

Don't give up though its more satisfying to battle on and win. If for nothing else it may actually save someone life one day.

These people are not being responsible not only to staff but to customers and other visitors.



Regards

Dave

Posted By mark limon
As a former long term safety rep I found that when things were taking a long time to resolve a paper(or email) trail was usually effective .
Once people knew that other people knew they had been informed of a hazard and this could be proved things tended to move along a lot quicker.Nobody wants to be the fallguy.
Mark.

Posted By Allan Curran
Thanks for all the replies, I never expected so many.

In my organisation, there are no KPI's for H&S yet, although I'm told there are moves afoot. My manager agrees that the culture needs to be changed, the retailer I work for is a biggie and the truth is the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing. There's this massive 'its not my problem' attitude. No one accepts responsibility for anything outside their own little worlds.

Whilst my manager agrees things need to change, privatley I think she'd be happier if I just ran around cleaning up after them. Well, I do enough of that at home and I dont get paid enough to do it at work and in my humble opinion, if people see the health and safety officer clearing exits for them, then they come to expect me to do it, which is the legacy my predessor has left me.

I've seen some culture change in my store with other aspects, but the only way people seem to suddenly find themselves motivated is when they get named and shamed for not achieving targets.


The way I see it, if a record gets placed in the FRA book and the place burns down, at least I know the FRA book will survive and its noted correctly that I tried to do something but was poo pooed at every step.I doubt anyone would be big enough to admit that I highlighted a problem to them verbally, when its their heads on the chopping block.

Thanks again though everybody.

Posted By Alan Hoskins
Allan,

It might be worth pointing out to these people that they may well find themselves targeted as a Responsible Person for their sites under the RRO during an inspection or worse, following an incident...

(Yes, I know it's the employer who is overall Responsible Person, but these 'managers' are contravening the requirements of the legislation and are 'in control' at their respective locations).

Alan

Posted By Andy Brazier
Rightly or wrongly, safety advisers have little influence over an organisation. For that reason there should be a director specifically responsible for H&S. This should be clear from your company's health and safety policy, which should also give you some idea of when H&S is discussed at higher levels.
These are the people that need to know there is a problem. How you tell them is a bit tricky. You could just write to them (with photos) but I recognise this may not go down too well locally.

Posted By DP
How are you finding out about the blocked escape routes? Your inspection or FO visits? Are they stock room issues (Xmas) or shop floor?

This is a massive amount of routes blocked in a retail environment and I would expect the public to reporting you. The Store Manager is responsible for fire safety in the store, he/she is endangering life. Have you made this clear? Do you rely on in-house fire risk assessments or did you get them done externally. What are the findings? If this is ongoing this is the key document in your armoury.

Posted By Peter Taylor14
just contact the fire safety officer at the local fire station, once he`s seen on the premises thing will improve