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Posted By Rob Randall
Can anyone enlighten me about when there is a requirement to have a fire warning system to BS 3289?
I am aware of course of the requirement for class 2B buildings, i.e. where there is sleeping accommodation such as a hotel of hostel etc but is there in fact any legal requirement for commercial or industrial buildings? The new Fire Safety Regs don't help very much and I quote from the Scottish regs
"12. —(1) Where necessary (whether due to the features of the relevant premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to ensure the safety of relevant persons in respect of harm caused by fire, a person with duties under section 53 or 54 must ensure that–
(a) the relevant premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate means for fighting fire and means for giving warning in the event of fire;"
The only qualification seems to be quite vague as well. Again I quote
"2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), what is appropriate is to be determined having regard to the dimensions and use of the relevant premises, the equipment contained in the relevant premises, the physical and chemical properties of the substances likely to be present and the maximum number of persons who may be present at any one time."
How does one decide "what is appropriate" and who will be the arbiter in a case of disagreement between the employer and the enforcing authority?
Is there perhaps a British Standard that identifies the type of properties/activities where an alarm system is required?
I would really appreciate your responses on this. With respect please don't tell me to do a risk assessment. I know the circumstances in which I would recommend an electronic alarm system but I need to know where it is a legal requirement; some employers take a lot of convincing and any weapon in the armoury is welcome.
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Posted By Barry Cooper
Rob
On a fire risk assessment course I recently attended, which by the way was run by the Fire and rescue, this topic was discussed.
Means of raising the alarm is what is suitable for the premises. If the premises are single storey, and open plan, then a simple hand gong will suffice, provided occupants can hear it.
If it is multi-storey with several rooms then a more sophisticated system will be required.
The important issue is that anyone discovering a fire must be able to raise the alarm, and occupants must be able to hear it.
I know you don't want me to say it, but your risk assessment should indicate what is required
Barry
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Posted By Ashley Wood
Rob,
The first thing is the British Standard for fire alarm systems in buildings is BS5839-pt1. It also states in 'Approved Document B' that a means of raising an alarm shall be provided. Also, take a look at the RR(FS)O, chapter 13, item 13.1. This advises that an alarm system is required by legislation but it does depend upon the building and the process going n in the building as to what level of alarm be provided.
What is your business and what type of building are you referring to?
Best regards
Ashley
Thermatech Fire Consultants
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Posted By Ashley Wood
Rob,
Forgot to mention. BS3289 is not a fire standard but related to textile conveyor belts etc.
Best regards
Ashley
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Posted By Rob Randall
Hi Barry and Ashley and thanks for your responses.
First of all I acknowledge the slip with the BS number should of course have been 5839. That said I must point out that you have not really answered the question that I asked.
I already know, as you will see if you read my post again, that a means of giving warning is required. The problem is that it is not defined in the Regs. what type of alarm is required and what the criteria are for deciding.
The British Standard doesn't specify the situations where an alarm must be fitted but only what the system should comprise of if it is fitted.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Rob it's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string.
The regulations cannot be precise because there are so many factors to consider. BS 5839 does give rough guidance in table A1. If after having read BS 5839 and PAS 79 you still require further information then perhaps you could look at PD 7974-4. This is a bit technical/scientific.
There is no requirement to provide automatic fire detection in most places of work but there is a requirement to ensure there is satisfactory means for detecting fire and giving warning of fire. I know you don't want to hear it again but it really is down to your fire risk assessment.
Some things you might want to consider are:-
is the system intended for life safety, property protection, business continuity or a combination of these;
whether there is sleeping accommodation;
the nature of the occupants e.g. members of public, familiarity of occupants with building, elderly or very young;
nature of business;
the list goes on. That is why the regs cannot be too specific. It is your risk assessment but the guidance listed above will help you.
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