Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Dan dan
If a tradesman has an accident one morning, continues to work for the rest of the day, comes in the next day for a full day then decides a few days later to take time off sick, would this need to be reported to the HSE or just recorded internally as sick days
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Kate Graham
It depends on why he "decides" (as you put it) to take the days off sick!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Taylor
If the accident involved a reportable injury or dangerous occurrence under the RIDDOR Regs it should be reported. If the sickness absence claimed to be taken because of the accident becomes reportable under RIDDOR due to its duration, it should be reported.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dan dan
mmmm, it seems daft that an employee is able to work a few days following an incident, then takes time off, you would have thought that that the riddor would work concurrently with the accident.
a little background the guy in question stumbled of the back step in our workshop and jarred his knee, he works 2 days manual labouring in the yard, he has time off the weekend and decides not to come in on the monday
Not being suspicious but this injury could have been agrevated or made worse at home and the company gets the scruteny from the hse as a result
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By P.R
Hi
You're correct that it could have been agrevated or worsened over the weekend and this could have been due to leisure activities. However, as the original accident/injury occured during work activities, it would be wrong to speculate. IMHO it would become reportable.
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Taylor
There is very little likelihood of HSE intervention following a report of this nature.
Employees have been known to claim falsely that injuries were work-related but have also been known to work on after sustaining injuries and later to become unable to perform their normal duties. Some injuries can even become more debilitating following normal activity. It's usually best not to attempt to judge at the reporting stage but you could express your doubts to the HSE/LEA on the F2508 form if you wish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Crim
If the employee just "jarred his knee" it is not reportable.
To be a three day injury he has to be away from his normal job for the first three days following the injury, including weekends.
I believe this case is not reportable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dan dan
Thanks Crim, exactly my thoughts.
I would think differently if the chap did not turn up for work the next morning directly following the incident and those few days following, I would then have no doubts in insisting on the relevant paperwork to be raised .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Barry Cooper
Dan
I assume the guy says he was off work because of the accident at work
RIDDOR quote
"for more than three consecutive days (excluding the day of the accident but including any days which would not have been working days) because of an injury resulting from an accident arising out of or in connection with work".
Doesn't say anything about "first three days following the accident"
May be suspicious but it should be reported.
Barry
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Crim
Thanks Dan, I passed the test then?
With 286 hits and only 7 responses this must have been a difficult one to answer for most?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Crim
You are required to, within 10 days of the accident send a report to the relevant enforcing authority on a form approved for the purposes of this regulation etc.etc.etc.
What if the injured person goes off sick 11 days after the accident happened? Are you then in breach of the regulations and liable to prosecution?
I have always accepted that the day after the asccident is the first day therefore the accident in this thread is not reportable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dan dan
I will go with Crim on this one, the accident is obviously recorded on the internal system.
Must admit it is ambiguous and "open to interpretation" If the document was more specific i.e. if an employee is off work for more than three days concurrently as a result of any injury sustained at work it would be deemed reportable, there would be no doubts and a report would be submitted
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By DavidW
Dan Dan
You dont mention how long the chap was actually off sick for. As Barry quoted, if he is off for more than three consecutive days and has said that the reason is related to the accident at work, then it is reportable. The fact that there were a few days between the accident and him taking time off is not relevant. Did he report the accident at the time? It's not relevant to whether you need to report under RIDDOR but may be useful to make a note if he didn't.
David
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mark Eastbourne
Sorry Dan dan
But if the IP had the weekend off and Monday too and states that it was because of the accident at work, even if it was just a jarred knee, the accident is reportable under RIDDOR.
Yes, it sucks as the IP may have "really" injured his knee over the weekend and thought to blame it on the accident at work, or he could have a current knee problem and decided to book time off to make a case to claim as it always sounds better if it was reportable, but bottom line, you do need to report it as soon as it becomes clear it is reportable under RIDDOR.
The HSE are unlikely to prosecute in these circumstances.
Seriously mate, report it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Lynne Ratcliffe
Just to muddy the waters on this one I have to say that my dearly beloved husband broke his neck and worked as normal for 3 days before it became stiff (the same vertebrae as Christopher Reeve broke - just luckier).
So there are instances where a reportable injury may not be discovered until some days after the injury.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,
What is important is that there is a clear link between an incident and the resulting time off. I had a situation where a member of staff injured her knee at work. She continued to work for eight months, while her knee problem slowly worsened. She eventually went into hospital for a few days to have knee surgery, and I was advised to report it as the link between incident and time off was clear. This contradicts the experience other people have had, I know, but it is what I was told by a HSE Principal Inspector,
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Crim
Message for Dad dan,
I have now changed my mind on this one and would advise you to report the initial accident if the employee has been away from his normal position for more than 3 days.
I would also investigate his actions on a weekend in case it could be proven that he played sport and aggrevated the injuty as a result. If this is the case then he should be taken through disciplinery procedure.
I thank all contributors for the invaluable input,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Heather Collins
Sorry Crim but you didn't "pass the test" on this one.
If the incident described involved MORE than three days absence from work (including the weekend) or inability to perform normal duties (note not three days - it is "over three days") then it is reportable under RIDDOR. It doesn't say anything in the Regs about the days off having to be consecutive with the accident.
Yes it's quite possible that the injury was aggravated at home. If it is made clear on the RIDDOR form that the absence was some days after the incident then HSE are most unlikely to take any action - they can read between the lines just like anyone else!
Whenever a question like this comes up (and they come up a LOT) I realise why there is so much under-reporting. We would always report a case like this - I can see that quite a few people wouldn't....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Heather Collins
OK Crim you beat me to it - Test passed on the second attempt!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Crim
Thanks Heather,
Isn't it funny that, "just when you think it's all over"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought this thread had exhausted itself a few days ago but it was only half way though!
This is really a good website/chat forum as so many people contribute with their opinions and in this case (I now believe) we have come up with the right answer, even though I was wrong in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ken Taylor
As a general principle, I tend to the view that, if in doubt, it's better to report something that you needn't than to not report something that you should. You will be readily excused for the former but risk being in breach of the law in the latter case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Dan dan
me too and i will conseeeeeeeeeeed defeat, i was at first adamant, I think it was out of principle to start off with, as the person involved did it had a fall out on the Friday afternoon with this line manager.
Like you crim, i commend this site for the info it does provide. Im not a safety man myself - too much red tape, and I like my tools too much or is it the money!!!!
Will do the report in time for next weeks 10 day deadline, I have a day off this wednesday to have a stab at my first ever report
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.