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#1 Posted : 24 November 2006 13:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By energy saver
At last the weekend is in sight!
Todays question is not my beliefs but has been mentioned by some older managers and that is :
Is Health and Safety making rods for their own backs?
These gentlemen are saying that in the 'good old days'(about 5-7 years ago) health and safety seemed simpler without having to risk assess everything just the processes which could cause harm.
I have explained statistics and the need for health and safety to be uncomplicated etc so the man on the street understands and can involve himself in the process but they remain unmoved.
Friday answers only.
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#2 Posted : 24 November 2006 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gordon Thelwell
Friday answers only? Alrighty then!

For one day, take away all things in the workplace that H&S state they must/should have.

No heating, close the toilets, no ppe, no lighting (candles will do), no warm drinks, tell them they are not insured and explain 'Non Volenti Injuria' to them all. You can guess the rest.

Have fun!

Gordon.
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#3 Posted : 24 November 2006 13:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By energy saver
Will do that Monday Gordon :-)
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#4 Posted : 24 November 2006 14:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Somewhere on this or another computer I have a copy of a company policy dating from Victorian times. (office staff)

It regulates clothing worn, hours of work, the floor sweeping rota, bringing in coal for the office stove, morning prayers and "gentlemen, for their convenience, may use the far end of the garden. It is expected that this area remain an an hygienic state"

And H&S has always been a complicated affair. There simply so many subjects you have to cover simultaneously. Remember Cooper's "reciprocating safety culture model" ?

Organisation (safety management system)reacting with and to the work environment which reacts with end to people who react with and to the SMS

All quite vibrant really. I just can't stop quivering when I think about it. Or do I mean tremble ?

Merv
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#5 Posted : 24 November 2006 14:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fitzy
Point out that it was in the 1974 Act that the idea of risk assessment was invented when these guys where probably at the height of thier imaginative best.

Just shows you 22 years later and we are still catching up.
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#6 Posted : 24 November 2006 14:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dan Lynch
Who needs safety?? as the previous post stated, think of all the money that you could safe. Heating bill gone, no breaks and longer working week means more production. WORK faster to keep warm.

But you ask how about all the accidents, Solution: in your safety policy state that no one is allowed to have an injury or illness at work.

OK, what happens if there is an accident, refer to HR and let them deal with the breach of the policy! Breach of policy = sacking. As they were about to have the accident, policy broken so sacked before the accident. No accidents to employees, no RIDDOR reporting and no problems!!!

But wait, how about unfair dismissal, insurance claims, identifying new employees to replace the sacked one and training costs not to mention all the cleaning of bodily fluids after the accidents. Therefore you need to increase the size of the HR, the cleaning and the training department. Insurance cost go up and the company is in financial trouble.

But wait there is an answer, SAFETY
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#7 Posted : 24 November 2006 14:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By energy saver
Sounds like you have used that before Dan!
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#8 Posted : 24 November 2006 15:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Going back to my youth doing H&S for a well known American company, they used to circulate all LTIs and non-work related violence-involving (ie car accident, murder) deaths.

If memory serves correctly (and I'm not that sure today) the most common cause of death reported was "domestic violence"

Don't be late home tonight

Merv
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#9 Posted : 24 November 2006 15:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Brazier
We should only be risk assessing processes that can cause harm. And then, we only need to record significant findings.

Am I missing something in the original post?

Andy
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#10 Posted : 24 November 2006 15:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By John_Webster
Fitzy: Looks like you still have another ten year's catcching up to do yourself!! :-)
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#11 Posted : 24 November 2006 18:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
5-7 years? I recall that the written risk assessment bit emerged around 13-14 years ago.

It did seem somewhat easier for the 'Safety Officer' pre 1974 though when you just had to tick off items from a check-list like workplace temperature, guards on machines whilst in use and walls whitewashed every 14 months. Whatever happened to the whitewash?
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#12 Posted : 25 November 2006 13:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Employers are no longer allowed to whitewash. That is strictly reserved for government inquiries.

And I think that even they are rationed. No more than three whitewashes per year before you become unelectable.

Merv

Monitors please note : for purposes of the aug, the above is a non-political statement applying as it does to any political party within living memory. And that takes me back to when churchill was a lad (almost)
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#13 Posted : 25 November 2006 23:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Going back to the original post.


You still only have to risk assess the things that can cause harm and only required to write down the significant findings.

So maybe we H&S bods do go OTT when we do this stuff, how many of you have or do Risk Assessments where there is obviously no harm likely to occur, will that bit of paper make it safer!
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#14 Posted : 27 November 2006 09:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brian John Abbs
Merv
Are these the rules to which you refer?

This firm has reduced the hours of work, and the clerical staff will now only have to be present between the hours of 6 a.m. and 7 p.m. weekdays.

Clothing must be of sober nature. The clerical staff will not disport themselves in raiment of bright colors, nor will they wear hose unless in good repair.

Overshoes and topcoats may not be worn in the office, but neck scarves and headwear may be worn in inclement weather.

A stove is provided for the benefit of the clerical staff. Coal and wood must be kept in the locker. It is recommended that each member of the clerical staff bring four pounds of coal each day during the cold weather.

No member of the clerical staff may leave the room without permission from the supervisor.

No talking is allowed during business hours.
The craving for tobacco, wine, or spirits is a human weakness, and as such is forbidden to all members of the clerical staff.

Now that the hours of business have been drastically reduced, the partaking of food is allowed between 11:30 and noon, but work will not on any account cease!!!.

Members of the clerical staff will provide their own pens. A new sharpener is available on application to the supervisor.

The supervisor will nominate a senior clerk to be responsible for the cleanliness of the main office and the supervisor's private office. All boys and juniors will report to him 40 minutes before prayers and will remain after closing hours for similar work. Brushes, brooms, scrubbers, and soap are provided by the owners.

The owners recognize the generosity of the new labor laws, but will expect a great rise in output of work to compensate for these near Utopian conditions.
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#15 Posted : 27 November 2006 14:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
That's the one ! Except that it doesn't have the bit about using the garden.

I think it's been sanitised.

Thanks

Merv
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