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Posted By Pete48 May I ask for some opinions and experience on the following please? I have been looking at whether children on work experience placements should be allowed to work at height or not. My initial response is no, because they don't need to, so it is a "no brainer" in one sense. But, I don't like "no brainers" 'cos it often means I am the one with no brains! I believe that, up until the WAH regs last year, allowing children on such placements up to the first lift on a scaffold and use of stepladders etc was generally accepted subject, of course, to adequate supervision and controls. However, I am very aware that much has changed in the real world of everyday construction with regard to WAH.
What I would find very helpful if you have a minute or two is: is it a no brainer or is it taking the easy route and denying children a learning opportunity? if you have allowed such activity, did you do anything other than the supervision etc controls? are there any crocodiles in the codes etc that might prohibit this anyway?
Notes: Work experience is children in year 10 and 11 (15-16 year olds) who go out into the workplace usually for a week in block but sometimes on day release for a year. They could be with a one man band builder, a thatcher or roofer, an electrician or a plasterer or even a window cleaner! It povides a means for children to go into workplaces normally barred to them in child employment terms.
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Posted By db There are certain things prohibited under the Young Persons at work guidance (cant remember the exact name) but I don't think wah is prohibited per se.
but, believe it or not, there are usually local bye laws that prohibit it so check with the local council.
However, I would not feel comfortable allowing it - especially if I didnt have direct control over the working platform/area as a whole. The guidance above says that people under 18 do not have the same perception of risk and so they should be monitored and supervised closely. Can you guarantee the safety of the platform or that they cant access other risks at height from that platform? Maybe. If you are totally happy that its OK, then go for it. I don't think going on a scaffold is an essential life skill... Society tends to look unfavourably on the death of a child. But thats just my opinion.
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Posted By Salus Pete, as always the risk assessment process must be carried out( see H & S young persons regs) there is nothing wrong in allowing the persons you describe to go onto a scaffold. The scaffold must be erected by a competent person, inspected every seven days (and record results|)and not be mucked about with by anyone except the person who erected it.
They definitely require supervision and PPE plus site induction.
Ensure adequate welfare facilities and first aid provision.
This is where the danger area is. I would be very worried about putting them with "one man bands" as these people tend not to put safety at the top of the pile when carrying out their work.
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Posted By Pete48 Thanks for the responses so far. This is just what will help me dedcide, I have a view that is broadly similar to Salus but would really appreciate as many inputs as possible. This is one fo those terribel low proabilioty high consequence assessments where as much benchmarking as possible is useful. Thanks again in advance.
Pete
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Posted By JPK Hmmm... It has been said here that site induction must be given which of course I agree with, but as with all 'NEW' let alone young persons on a construction site, do they actually understand the what is being explained??
A common problem on contruction sites is that although site induction is very good to show the risks associated with that site to persons already trained to maybe CSCS level etc, a young person is not site H&S trained.
Be wary of site induction as adequate training for the use of scaffolds or SSW.
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Posted By P.R Pete I agree with Salus that a risk assessment must be carried out, but IMHO it could show an unacceptable risk. Given that the 1st level of hierarchy is if you don't need to be at height...don't, why subject young persons to unnesessary risk?
As I say just my opininon and I will probably get shot down, but hey ho.
Peter
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Posted By Sally The argument about 1st level of hierarchy could be extended to saying don't let them go on work experience at all - it isn't necessary but it is very beneficial for the young people.
My view would be that you consider carefully what they will be doing at height. Are they actually carrying out a task or just going up a scaffold to see work taking place and then risk assess carefully. Obviously you need to ensure that all the standard precautions are in place as you would for any situation involving scaffolding and then take account of the others ie lack of age and experience. It may be that the outcome is that they go up onto the scaffold with an experienced worker for a 'visit' to see what type of work is done - that in itself is a useful experience. Also use it as an opportunity to teach the young person about risk assessment.
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Posted By Pete48 Thanks to those who contributed. I particularly like the idea of a "visit" only, no work approach and will include that in my decision.
Interesting isn't it that we have thousands and thousands of children going out into workplaces every year under this scheme but very little written about it in terms of practical H&S controls for them. By which I mean the sort of detailed guidance that we would find for many other areas. Maybe thats my next project??
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