Posted By Dave Wilson
Rachel,

You will have to get your people through the CSCS H&S Touch screen test (£25) and then apply for a 'Regular Site Visitors' Card (£25) which will be valid for 5 years and then you should have no problems.

Posted By JPK
Hi Racheal,

I have had this exact problem with a planning supervisor recently.
They do not accept the IOSH working safely, and are demanding CITB-CSCS cards as proof of competence before they give any more work or any of our operatives step foot on site, and we are the principle contractor!!

We will then in turn have to demand exactly the same requirements from any sub-contractor, as it will then become part of our necessary vetting procedure.
This will also cause us an number of problems, as many of our VERY experienced and competent Subbies who are not CSCS trained have to take a day off work to undertake the same test!

I very much doubt it was the requirement of the contractor, and more of the Planning Supervisor.
Insurances may also depend on this criteria, so dont be so hard on the contractor, its doubtful that they were the instigator!

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Interestingly the new CDM acop specifically talks of the CSCS as basic H&S awareness not competency. Interesting debate to be had here with a coordinator. One would also have to question the competency of advice given to a client if they are informed that CSCS is a competency scheme for H&S on construction sites.

On the other side I cannot quibble with the CSCS as it was originally designed - a measure to certify that a trades person had reached a particular trade skill level. The problem is now that only the NVQ route is recognised. This has led to IOSH needing to pay £2k to get the Construction Industry Council to accept our NVQ equivalence. The assessment will however be done by persons totally unfamiliar with H&S professional qualifications.

The world gets better every day.

Bob

Posted By Ron Hunter
So disappointing to read that a Planning Supervisor is insisting on all parties involved in a Project going thru' this "hoop jumping" exercise. The P.S. should be giving the Client competent advice!
CDM, and CDM 2007 DO NOT call for mandatory assessment for all parties, the Regs merely make it incumbent on Client to ensure the competency of those they engage. This could (for example) be by in-house training and S/NVQ, always accepting that others NOT holding such qualifications can work under supervision of those who do.
CSCS & EQUIVALENT SCHEMES ARE NOT MANDATORY!

Posted By JPK
Ron that was my exact comment and arguement to them!!

Their claim was, which I might add I also dont agree with, is that the CSCS is Construction industry specific, whereas the IOSH working safely is 'too general'!

Posted By Chris Bramall
One route to consider for those organisations with some electrical scope is the JIB route.

If you go to http://www.jib.org.uk/ecs2.htm
you will see that the JIB recognise a variety of qualifications including IOSH.

Electrotechnical Certification Scheme Health and Safety Assessment


As part of the Industry's drive to raise the level of Health & Safety awareness in response to the Government and the Health & Safety Executive initiatives, the ECS is introducing a Health and Safety Assessment as a requirement for holding an ECS card. This forms part of the Affiliation Agreement with CSCS. The test became mandatory from February 2003.

The Assessment is a requirement for all members of the ECS. This web page sets out the requirements for operatives working under the JIB National Agreement for JIB member firms.

Who needs to pass the Assessment?

Successful completion of the Assessment became mandatory for anyone applying either for a new card or to renew an existing card from 1st February 2003.

The Assessment applies to all card applications at all levels, whether they are for skilled cards, management cards or regular visitors' cards.

What is the format of the Assessment?

It is a simple multiple choice Assessment that will normally be taken on a computer. It is extremely simple to execute and does not demand any prior computer knowledge. Candidates will be briefed by an Invigilator on how to complete the Assessment and will also undertake a short practice Assessment first to ensure that they are able to undertake the Assessment.

The Computer Assessment is self marking and on completion the system will inform candidates whether they have passed or failed. It will also allow candidates to see which questions they had failed to answer correctly.

The Assessment covers a range of general site health and safety topics, with questions for individual Assessments being selected from a large databank of questions. Each Assessment is unique, the questions being randomly generated from the software installed on the PC.

To facilitate the introduction of the Assessment, a paper-based version generated from the computer system, is also available in certain circumstances.

Where can the Assessment be taken?

Initially Assessment facilities will be provided across England, Wales and Northern Ireland by the ECA and Amicus. Full details of the schedules are available by contacting the following:

ECS Assessment Processing, Joint Industry Board, Kingswood House, 47/51 Sidcup Hill, Sidcup, Kent, DA14 6HP. Tel: 020 8302 0031 Fax: 020 8309 1103 E-Mail: ecs-assess@jib.org.uk

For bookings in South East London and Kent or block bookings by special arrangement and any queries concerning the Health and Safety Assessment and the ECS please contact the above.

ECS Assessment Booking Centre, Education and Training, Electrical Contractors' Association, 1 Peel Court, St. Cuthberts Way, Darlington, DL1 1GB. Tel: 01325 487 829 Fax: 01325 482 196

The above address is only available for making Assessment bookings across England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

In addition, JIB member firms can apply the JIB to become Licensed Centres to provide the assessment for their own staff. Licensed Centres will have to meet set criteria for the facilities available and have at least one invigilator attend a workshop arranged by the JIB to familiarise them with the operation of the computer based Assessment. Full details of obtaining the license can be obtained from:

ECS Assessment Processing, Joint Industry Board, Kingswood House, 47/51 Sidcup Hill, Sidcup, Kent, DA14 6HP.

Tel: 020 8302 0031

e-mail: ecs-assess@jib.org.uk

What preparation is available?

When applicants for either the computer or paper-based Assessments are booked into a Licensed Centre they will be issued with a copy of the complete database of questions that is used to generate individual Assessments. This booklet also contains the answers to all questions, together with short commentaries, to encourage its use as a learning aid.

The booklet containing the question database can be downloaded by using the ECS menu or by visiting the Publications page. This will allow applicants to prepare themselves before they are booked into a Licensed Centre.

Exemptions from the Assessment

Applicants able to show that they have certain certificates are exempted from taking the ECS Assessment for three years from the required Assessment date. The current list of qualifications is:

Certificates obtained during a five year period to the required assessment date

NVQ Level 3
NEBOSH Health and Safety Diploma Part 1
NEBOSH Certificate
Woodland Grange Diploma in HS Management (leading to MSc)
Certificates obtained during a two year period prior to the assessment date

Amicus/ECA Working Safely Together in the Electrotechnical Industry (JIB preferred course)
SELECT Safe Working in the Electrotechnical Industry (SJIB preferred course)

Woodland Grange Diploma in HS Management (leading to Tech SP)
Any IOSH accredited courses below from JIB acknowledged providers (providers must obtain written acknowledgement from JIB that its course is deemed suitable for JIB purposes
i) Working Safely Together

ii) Working Safely

iii) Managing Safely

iv) Managing Safely in Construction

v) IOSH - SPA Passport Core Day

CCNSG Safety Passport

This list may be updated over time and queries over other nationally recognised qualifications should be addressed to the JIB.

Hope this is of use.

Posted By Pete48
"The primrose path to hell is paved with good intentions". This might well be a relevant motto or even an epitaph for the CSCS and others like it.
Having spent an interminable amount of my time in the late 80's and early 90's with responsibility for managing a similar scheme in a high risk industry I am dismayed that the Construction Industry has stuck so doggedly to this approach. I know all the good and bad reasons for using them but the problem always arises when schemes become mutually exclusive and not mutually inclusive.
The inevitable result of this exclusivity is an unthinking application of dogmatic standards at an administrative level which has nothing to do with H&S. IMHO, this will put at risk the progress that has been made in Construction if it is not sorted out soon.

I really would not want to enter a construction site that refused me entry solely on the grounds of not being a card carrying member. Fortunately I do not need to anymore so I can have that luxury not afforded those who have to work on these sites.
Does an HSE Inspector have to have a card to enter a site I wonder??

Posted By JPK
Sorry to be a pain, but the comment about a HSE inspector having the CSCS card!?

The powers of inspectors, why would they need it?