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Posted By David Passmore
I am wondering if anyone out there has had experience of a director (whose name is on the front of our company H&S policy) who will not comply with our factory safety requirements.
As a safety officer within a production environment, I am constantly bringing this issue up with our HR department with little success.
The director (who chairs our monthly safety meetings and sanctioned the recently updated ppe policy) will not wear safety shoes, will not wear ear protection or wear it correctly and does not think that customers who visit our premises on a regular basis should not have to wear PPE.
I have explained to him that legally we have a duty of care not only to our employees but to "others" who come onto our premises and as "controlling mind" should lead by example.
I do not understand the mindset of him and why he continues to abuse his position, as our policy states that such breaches are a disciplinary matter.
Has anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?
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Posted By Crim
You say such breaches are subject to discipline, who does the Director report to? If it is the MD then I suggest you talk to the MD and put the ball firmly in his court!
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Posted By JayJay
Hi David !
Just remind him of the health and safety policy that you have meticulously put together and show him the 'organisation' section where if you have put an organisation chart with his name on it then you can point out to him his responsibilities, maybe a few chosen examples of prosecutions where directors have been prosecuted for neglecting their duties may help !Hope that helps you.
regards JJ
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Posted By martin gray1
Hi David
I have been there with my directors drives you mad I know. All you can do is keep plugging away at him. What I managed to do was get some factory visits and point out the professionalism of the other organisations.
I also got our insurance company on their annual visit to talk to them. I am pleased to say they now comply still think it's all a bit over the top but they comply.
Martin
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Posted By David Passmore
Thanks Martin - Thanks JJ,
I appreciate your comments and just as I suspected, I was certain that there would be other people in similar circumstances and it really is frustrating.
Currently, the organisational chart is listed by title only - not by names - so placing the names on the chart is something I certainly will consider.
I have been told by him that I am trying to do my job "by the book", my response being that "the book" will be thrown at him should he end up in court.
A director not conforming to the most basic and fundamental aspects of safety in the workplace as you will understand, makes the task of enforcing these safety requirements so difficult. I will persevere however, and perhaps persuade him to lead by example.
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Posted By JayJay
David !
Another way of trying to get him to comply is to play mind games with him ! Suggest to him before your safety meeting that that visitors to site wearing the appropriate PPE is not only a good idea from a management point of view but if it came from him at the meeting in front of the other directors or MD it will make him look good but then you've killed 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak. Oh and the fact he's got to wear his safety shoes too haha.
Regards JJ
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Posted By Pete48
David,
before we all rush to hit this guy over his unprotected head with the law book or company rule book, lets stop and consider what is going on here.
The Director obviously considers that the policy is not adequate or correctly drawn out since it does not cover the issues reported. There is no other possible reason for his behaviour based on the reported circumstances. I would find it difficult to accept that he would deliberately set out to sabotage his own policy? Misguided maybe but not deliberate.
It may be that he is doing a separate risk assessment in his head that justifies his actions due to a lower perceived risk based on time spent in the hazard zone, only on walkways etc. He has not accepted the "sense" in the control. Happens to us all irrespective of position.
That is the conversation I would want to have with the Director. No legal threats at this stage, just straightforwardly saying "this is stupid, we have a policy that clearly doesn't work". Why does he/she consider it safe to do so, this is important because the policy may be too rigid and the director should be allowed to challenge and suggest amendment if relevant. I would use the conflict that exists between his actions and the impact of his actions on the ability to get employees to comply when he does not.
The possible outcomes are then: the Director changes his behaviour: or the policy gets changed to allow visitors etc not to wear some items: or you express concerns about the Director's behaviour to either the MD or the Director responsible for H&S, and ask for him to review it for you because you have been unable to move the position forward with the Director concerned. Note my choice of words carefully re the last outcome.
Oh and the other one is you end up leaving the company and not entirely at your choice. Have to get these things right when dealing with senior executive directors and managers. We are people just like you after all.
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Posted By Tony Brunskill
And I always thought senior managers were superhuman and immune to accidents. That said I agree with Pete. Blanket approaches, especially to PPE are often OTT. Base the decision on risk, particularly around exposure and you will probably find a significant difference in the need of the shop floor v the need of occassional visitors. There are obvious exceptions to things like high noise, fumes etc, but how likely is a senior manager to drop an engine block on his toe as he describes the process from yards away. If the argument is mobile plant etc then I am less likely to want PPE and more likely to restrict pedestrian access during busy periods. No text book answers to this one.
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Posted By Ian Waldram
Well said Pete, the first thoughtful response. The issue is to understand, from discussion with him and others, why the director is behaving as he is, as he is clearly very unwilling to change.
Of course, he's probably at very low risk himself, and so thinks the 'effort' of using PPE isn't justified.
What he needs to understand is that allowing everyone to decide for themselves what 'rules' to apply is unrealistic in a typical factory situation. If that's then agreed, how does he think others (who are exposed to the relevant hazards for longer and more closely) will interpret his behaviour? Best of all, get him to ask them directly, and listen to the feedback - but you better be sure first that they too see that wearing the PPE is really justified! (i.e. effort required is small compared with the realistic risks).
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Posted By Ryan Ramjit
David,
I have learned quite a bit from reading the responses above, thanks for posting.
If we dial out the fact that this employee is also a director and look beyond his behavior you might find that there is a belief and or value system that guides this behavior.
Now dial in the fact that this employee is also a director to the equation.
Goind to HR is not going to improve your relationship with this director. You are close to this one and may have data that you cannot share in this forum. My advice is to take the time to listen, observe and interact with this director. You may find this approach a bit long term, but behavioral change which should start at the basic belief level is a long term process.
Take the time to understand this director then develop a relationship that is open to you coaching and not just quoting rules. Visibly demonstrate leadership and he may join you on the journey to safety leadership.
Good luck with this one. Let us know how you get on.
Ryan
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Posted By Crim
While I do agree with the above posting there is alwaye the "What if" a visitor, or the Director himself suffers an accident and injury which could have been avoided if they conformed to the PPE requirement? The employer could be criticised and prosecuted for not carrying out the requirements of the companies own safety policy?
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Posted By David Passmore
Thanks guys for all of the postings which have been very helpful. As Ryan correctly pointed out, there is some data that I cannot share, however, I will try to divulge a little more information to give you all some idea what I am dealing with.
Currently, the company is inundated with claims for NIHL which is "crippling the business".
In an attempt to stem the flow of claims and prevent future claims, I was given the job along with a new HR manager to review and implement the company's hearing conservation policy (which the director in question agreed to its implementation)to ensure all employees are protected from noise where it has been reduced to its lowest practicable level. Incidentally, the majority of hearing loss claims are by people who have been with the company for many years.
A noise risk assesment, a professional noise survey and a new hearing conservation policy have all been implemented with a review and subsequent issue of improved hearing protection now introduced.
Noise levels within the production areas can reach 100dB(A) around machinery and can sometimes peak above this for short periods, however, the new protection introduced takes into account of a worst case scenario. Information and instruction have been given to all employees on the noise hazards within our workplace (which incidentally is a traditionally noisy industry) so you can appreciate the importance of the wearing of PPE within production areas. There is no traffic/pedestrian segregation within these areas(another issue) and forktrucks are a constant hazard.
Also employees have been disciplined for not wearing ear protection and despite two wrongs not making a right, I am constantly being asked by guys on the shop floor why they have to wear ear protection and this Director blatantly fails to comply - I am sure you can understand my predicament. Incidentally, on expressing my concerns about employees bringing in old appliances from home (contrary to our electrical safety policy), I was told by this Director that "240volts wont hurt anybody".
So there you have it. I do not think our policies are too rigid (bearing in mind the very basic requirements asked in this situation)As I have explained to my manager, forktrucks and noise do not discriminate!
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Posted By Pete48
Dave, obviously a little more tricky but makes my opinion stronger as a result. I think it was Tony who mentioned earlier in the thread that access may need to be restricted.
With the environment you have, I would want access restricted to essential staff only and then with full hearing protection as specified. No exceptions whilst the factory is in production. Visits outside production time may be possible.
In one company I worked for, we gave any employee the authority to escort people not wearing the correct ppe to a safe area. The Directors remembered that.
Good luck with it and slowly slowly catchee monkey may be your best approach to start with.
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Posted By Anita Parkinson
David, i feel like you have been into my food factory and seen my Director. the comparisons are exact
I have been with my Director for nearly five years and although i say it myself, have had a dramatic effect on the safety culture and employee risk perception while being here, i did not tackle the Director direct i got him from behind and underneath, so to speak, starting at managment level and shaming him into complying. i also used insurance and customers requirements to my advantage, often asking them out right to suggest improvements.
My Director calls me his terrier as once hold of something i will not let go until i'm satisfied.
we are no way a finished product but i have had fun getting here and life is never dull, i have made alot of changes mostly without him realising which has made him accept them rather than fight them.
have a strong idea where you want to be and utilise everything in your power to get it
Good luck hunny
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Posted By JPK
Hey David,
The exact same problem was had by me in my last role.
The approach I took, was to provide the board with a risk assessment specifically for the Director.
In it, I highlighted the main hazard being that the Directors felt it unnecessary to wear PPE in the designated areas, and so the Risk Assessment ultimately said that they were not allowed to attend these areas, unless all work activity ceased. Attached to the RA, I provided a letter sanctioned by the MD, that stated that abuse of position and lack of production due to works ceasing for a Director to enter the premises, would be recorded and an explaination would have to be given for this at a board meeting.
I also attached a disclaimer against my responsibities for this lack of production and any accidents that occured as a result of ignoring this RA, and required a signature from each member.
Needless to say, we came to an understanding and they now wear PPE.
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