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Posted By Dean Harris
Does anybody use the above acid, and what is the best precaution and treatment for this,we are about to introduce it on site we've got most of it covered and just wondered if there is any more prevential treatment,like have oxygen provided on site, buddy buddy system,first aiders, calcium gluconate,ive got a lot of information from the hse website so i was just wondering if anyone uses this product and what you use..thks
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Posted By Diane Thomason
Hi Dean
I'm sure you have been down the "can we eliminate it" route first!
We have a couple of departments using it here. You have probably covered most of what you need, but I have a couple of procedure and first aid docs you may want to check out - email me directly.
Diane
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Posted By Roger Uncles
Dean
We use Hydrofluoric Acid on the site, nasty stuff you might want to consider the following
1. Health Surveillance
2. RPE
3. Waste disposal procedures
We have a COSHH assessment which is quite detailed not specifically to do with HF but the process it is used on.
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Posted By Jane Blunt
John
As with many dangerous chemical substances, there are situations where only hydrofluoric acid will do. However, its use is not entered into lightly.
We use a lot of it, and have special training courses for users and for first aiders. Good handling protocols are essential - since the stuff looks like water.
Jane
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Posted By Martin Devlin
Dean,
In my last employment we used a lot of this acid and even had our own acid effluent treatment plant. It is not nice stuff and is always dangerous. We actually sourced a first aid treatment called Hexafluoine which instead of diluting the acid on the skin, actually removed it instantly. The operators carried small containers for eye splashes and skin burns on their belts and we had a fire extinguisher type dispensers for whole body washes. It was very good stuff and might be worth goggling. There is also Diphoterine for Sulphuric acid burns which does the same job.
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Posted By John J
Quote from George Piemental the renowned chemist "Hydrofluoric Acid is one of the most dangerous compounds that God has ever created, and even God should never have created a chemical as dangerous as this."
We use tonnes of this product and have many years experience in the use of it. We provide calcium gluconate to all users to keep at home, hazard awareness cards to users and local hospitals, extensive training in hazards and use etc.
Please contact me and I'll see if I can help. Unfortunately I'm away until Thursday but will reply on return.
Alternatively contact the CIA (Chemicals Industry Association) who will be able to give you advice.
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Posted By John Lewis
I also used this in a previous job. Useful things we dd were to always dip gloves in a dye solution before use. If the cotton liner gloves went red then the gloves were pinholed and replaced.
Anyone suspected of being contaminated was sent to hospital with an HF first aid kit containing all the antidote materials and medical info. Hospitals are rarely geared up for this stuff unless they have a big user near by.
Toolkits used for HF were thoroughly cleane after use and never left the area. (Until somebody pinched one! We put out dire warnings but it never reappeared).
Finally, if your process allows mix it with Slphuric acid so that if you do splash yourself you know about it!
John
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Posted By Bill Parkinson
Dean
Would also suggest you contact the Chemical Industry Association as they are likely to be able to give you details of who manufactures HF and also possible users.
I used to work at more than one site where it was used and people would be surprised as to where and what it can be used in as part of a manufacturing process!!
You may also want to talk to chemical specialists within HSE who could be able to offer advice.
Good Luck!!
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Posted By Diane Thomason
Dean,
Another suggestion, prompted by John Lewis' reply - contact your local A&E to check that they are geared up to treat HF casualties. Ours has a nurse who is trained in "chemical incident" handling and they have all the gear.
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Posted By Sarah J Shaw
HF antidote gel which contains calcium gluconate is what we give staff. They are given the tubes before handling the product (we pack it) and they take them home with them over night.
Our delivery drivers also carry it incase they have a breakage. We also show staff and first aiders a video, which I believe originated from Rhone P, for training what to do in an emergency and what it looks like after its gone wrong. I have a skin care training presentation with some info in it and a photo from the HSE showing what damage a pin hole leak in a glove can do.
We supply the gel so if you contact me I can give you the details - warning has a short shelf life. Hope this isn't advertising!
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Posted By Chris Packham
Depending upon concentration, the only gloves that may provide you with adequate protection will be from butyl rubber.
Any glove used as protection against chemical hazards should be unlined. If sweating is a problem, then a separate cotton liner will help.
So-called "lined" gloves are almost always actually coated cotton gloves (the technical term is "supported"). Fibres from the coating can penetrate into (and sometimes in the cheaper gloves 'through') the outer coating, significantly reducing the protection provided.
One point to remember. Personal protective equipment is almost always fail to danger. Thus with something as hazardous as hydrofluoric acid, ppe should be as a back-up to other control measures.
Chris
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Posted By peter gotch
Dean
For readers to give you sensible response you will need to specify whether in gaseous or liquid form, and, assuming the latter, what strength.
Regards, Peter
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Posted By Dan Malone
Dean,
We use this in my current job in Ireland. A lot of it. First Aid precautions are as follows,
Flush area with water for 5 minutes.
Confirm that substance is positive for HF
Administer Calcium Gluconate to affected area.
Refer patient to hospital for follow up.
This is our normal response for HF splashes.
As others have said, it is not nice stuff. Try to substitue with other chemical if possible otherwise try to use the most dilute amount that you can.
Always refer to the SDS.
Regards
Dan Malone
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Posted By John Lewis
Chris P has mentioned lined gloves and so I re-read my original post. To clarify; white cotton gloves were used as a tell tale to reveal red dye if the outer rubber butyl gloves were leaking. This was done on EVERY occasion the gloves were used for HF and as a result we never had a confirmed case of HF contact. The procedure did not call for liners to be worn because we felt they could act in the same manner as a wet suit, and by warming the hands disguise the ingress of HF.
Sorry if I misled anyone.
P.S. It does not seem to affect some Japanese engineers. One time we were filling a 4,000 litre tank from a bulker (dressed in green suits and face shields) and this guy opened the lid and stuck his head in to make sure it was flowing!!!!!!! He left for Japan the following day never to return.
John
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Posted By Clare Gabriel
Nasty stuff this - depends on the strength you are using it at.
The main hazards associated with HF is that it does not 'burn' like other acids on contact and also it cannot be washed off with water. It 'searches' for calcium and burns straight through skin and if in the blood stream can cause heart failure.
But again check the concentration.
Years ago I was an HSE inspector and I prosecuted a Company for using this without relevant information to employees and training for first aiders. An employee was using it as a proprietary mix for the cleaning of Aluminium wheel hubs - he poured it into a garden spray bottle, spilt it on his foot, not knowing the strength of it carried on working until that evening he took his sock off and then took many layers of skin. He was in hospital for nearly a month requiring skin grafts.
The antedote is calcium gluconate gel but you will need to ensure that your first aiders are given additional training on how to administer it - its not just a case of rubbing it on tot he effected part as then the first aider can become contaminated. Also there are chemical suites you can buy that change colour of there is a chemical splash.
You need the MSDS, your usage and a thorough risk assessment. Let me know if you need any further help.
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Posted By Chris Packham
From my favourite glove manufacturer's catalogue:
Hydrofluoric acid 15 %:
Following glove materials can provide class 6 protection: natural rubber latex, chloroprene, thicker nitrile, Viton, Butyl
Hydrofluoric acid 40%
Following glove materials can provide class 6 protection: Chloroprene, Viton, Butyl
Over 40% only butyl is acceptable.
This presupposes that the gloves are of reasonable thickness. The thin, single-use type gloves should not be used. This data does not, of course, apply necessarily to gloves from other manufacturers, but is an indication only of what you should be looking at.
Chris
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