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Posted By Rachel G
I know there are lots of previous treads on this field, I just hoped someone would have a quick answer for me.
I am sure I have read somewhere that smoking shelters should not be attached to buildings, I.E. they should be independent shelters situated away from the main buildings.
Can anyone confirm this and guide me to where I may have seen it?
Many Thanks
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Posted By Salus
you can put them where you like,just assess for any flammables
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Posted By A. Fergusson
Remember that the location needs to ensure smoke is not drawn into a building through open windows or ventilation systems.
Another point to consider is the design of the shelter, I seen a number that have sides, this would make them a closed space, and they may not be compliant with the new rules.
A final point to consider is who is going to be required to clean this shelter, or will smokers be required to do this?
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Posted By Calum Clark
Not a legal point but if you site it too far from the building it won't get used without some strict enforcement.
A case in point is Aberdeen Airport where everyone huddles near the front entrance next to the no smoking signs. The shelter is only a two minute walk away but when I used it I felt rather lonely.
Calum
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Posted By jackw.
Hi, firstly awwwwwww poor Calum!!!
Shelter location is up to yourself so long as the smoke doesn't re-enter the building. But i think perhaps you are confusion shelter with a canopy which can be attached to the building. again no problem so long as you ensure smoke can not re enter the building..If in doubt contact your local planning department. Indeed you may find in many instances that you will need planning permission for shelters and or a canopy. At least that is how it is in Scotland.
Cheers.
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Posted By Rachel G
Thank you for your responses,
It was in relation to a number of different sites where we are trying to find solutions.
I was sure I had read a recommendation that said the shelter must be independent of the building (So not a canopy of any kind) but just couldn't remember where.
Probably just got the thought about the requirement not to allow the smoke back into the building into my head and formed some home made best practice.
Thank you again for your responses.
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Posted By jackw.
Hi sorry to contradict..but here in Scotland a number of properties particularly bars/pubs are using canopies attached to the side of the property.
Shelters are a different kettle of fish and more likely to be provided for staff in offices factories etc.
Cheers.
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Posted By rp consulting You are incorrect to think you can site them "wherever you like so long as smoke doesn't enter the building" Two things you should know, the legislation affects smoking in a "substantially enclosed space" .. the legislation further goes on to define that as having more than 50% of the sides enclosed by walls, or structures serving the purpose of walls. So ... say you have a bus shelter type arrangement .. 1 long wall enclosed, the other long wall and the 2 short walls open .. you position it too close to a building, the wall of the building now counts as a 2nd wall. You now have 2 long enclosing walls, and 2 short open walls. More than 50% of the preimeter is enclosed and thus you can't smoke in it. I might refer you to this http://www.morningadvert...r.co.uk/pdf/shelters.pdf guide from Gateshead Borough Council that sets the requirements out a bit more clearly. Basically, you need 50% of the perimeter not enclosed by walls, and that includes the sides of a building if it is close to one. Careless siting of a compliant shelter might render it non-compliant.
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Posted By alan noble The smoke free regulations in Scotland (and in future for rest of UK) do not specify design or position etc. of smoking shelters. There is a little guidance from the Scottish Exec. website www.clearingtheairscotland.com Scottish local authorities had to come up with their own guidance. I would suggest for those interested in shelters etc. that they have a look at www.south-ayrshire.gov.u...ntalhealth/smokefree.asp on which they are worked examples of compliant shelters. As regard to position of shelters, in my local authority, we would include in any "substantially enclosed" calculation of the perimeter for the shelter any object that comes within 1.5 metres of the shelter (An explanation of why is given in the South Ayrshire website). It is possible at the planning stage to influence where canopies,awnings, shelters etc. are placed so that smoke entering back into premises is minimised. However this can only be advice. In Scotland the vast majority of premises did not put anything in place for smokers. With regard to smoke entering premises there is nothing in the smoke free legislation to prevent this. If a problem arises you would to see whether anything could be acheieved through health and safety or nuisance law and it may require making case law.
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Posted By Stuart Webster
I am interested in this thread as objections have been made at my place of work due to what seems like careless siting of a bus shelter for smokers. I was searching for any guidance/regs regarding the siting of smoking bus shelters.
The problem is that the bus shelter has a roof and partial sides, yet has been sited underneath the canopy of the warehouse (why have a roof and put it under another roof!?) It is also very close to the side of the building i.e. approx. 2m from the canteen staff rear door access, general staff door entrance and opposite air-conditioning units!
Surely it poses a fire hazard having the bus shelter underneath the canopy in the first place? Plus all the other problems outlined. In addition the canopy of the warehouse may well constitute being an enclosed space for the purpose of the regs?
Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
That's an easy one, put them on the dark side of the sun,
Anti smoking or what???
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Opps, should have reviewed taht one. What I meant to say they don't have to be independent as long as there is no means of smoke gaining entry into a building , e.g. a lean to shelter opening away from the building is enough unless of coarse there is a chance of he main building catching fire from an carelessly discarded sig end.
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Posted By Merv Newman
There is no requirement to provide "smoking areas" or shelters.
Should they be provided then they must be "substantially unenclosed" ie less than 50% wall area excluding openable doors and windows. And why put a roof on it anyway ?
In line with the storage of combustible materials outside of a building (pallets and so on) I would recommend a space of 15 meters (50 feet) between building and smoking/storage area. Long enough for smokers to get reallyreally soggy. Aversion therapy.
Equality for non-smokers : As a "fag break" usually lasts 10 to 15 minutes I would put this down as unpaid time and require smokers to make it up at the end of the day.
"Non smoking" legislation came into France at the end of January. And we are already seeing piles of dog ends outside banks and public buildings. Scruffy. See where your smokers smoke and provide decent ash trays.
Merv (pipe smoker)
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Posted By J Knight
Stuart,
I personally am strongly opined that in terms of the regs it is the warehouse canopy roof which will count, and the degree of perimeter enclosure will be determined by the amount of the area covered by the warehouse canopy which is enclosed, or by the extent to which the shelter is enclosed, whichever is the greater; or indeed by adding the degrees of enclosure together if a 'shelter effect' is produced (see the link to the South Ayrshire council website above for enforcers' thinking on this).
Otherwise you could stick your shelter up in the MDs office and say 'look, this space under the shelter roof is less than 50% enclosed'. If you MD smokes you might get promotion for this, but only temporarily I think, :-)
John
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Posted By alan noble
Your local Environmental Health Service will be able to advise if the bus shelter complies (Scotland & Wales) or will comply (England & Northern Ireland) with smoke free legislation. Even if it is a premises which would normally be enforced for health & safety by HSE, your local LA will be enforcing authority for smoke free legislation.
The issue of how much space is needed for a structure to comply is very simple. At least 50% of the structure has to be free space open to fresh air. Any doors or windows etc. are calculated as being part of the solid 50% of the structure even if they are capable of being opened. A structure which is exactly 50%space 50% solid complies.
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Posted By Stuart Webster
Thanks for everyones input, much appreciated.
P.S. they are moving the bus shelter now, too many complaints!
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Posted By Rachael Hopkins
I've sent out a short questionnaire to a number of companies asking what they plan to do or have put into place when the UK smoking ban comes into force in July.
What has come out of this survey is that many companies are unsure if the new legislation prohibits smoking within a certain distance of any building. The general thought is 15m? Does anyone know if this is true or if it is up to local councils?
Thanks
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Posted By alan noble
There is no statutory distance as to where you can smoke from a building. So quite literally as soon as you take one step out of a building into the open air under the open sky you can legally smoke. What is optional for businesses is to have their own smoking policy which can state a distance away (this may be where the 15 metres has been conjured up)they expect people to smoke. For example some NHS trusts have introduced smoking policies banning smoking completely from their grounds, likewise some LAs have banned smoking from school grounds, both these have to be "enforced" internally by school and hospital staff because it is not illegal to smoke in the open air under an open sky. More commonly smoking policy will state smoke away from doors or windows. It is important for businesses to consider the H&S issues around smoking and even if they are not going to provide a shelter they should consider where employees etc are likely to smoke. Some consider that by providing an area or shelter you are encouraging people in their habit but at least you know where they are.
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