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Posted By May Warley
Hi everybody,
Need help again, this time with positive air flow as I don't trust the explanation given by our Site Engineer.
We hv a high risk room to wash garments for food industries and the air flow broke down many mths ago. The girls have to wedge open the fire door to allow ventilation in.
The Site Engineer said that all doors need to be shut in order for the air flow to work effieciently. Is this true?
I hv just checked out the cleanroom when I was told that the problem has been sorted yesterday. I couldn't feel any cool air coming out and all doors are left open now as it can be quite unbearable working with the tunnel dryer turned on.
Thanks
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Posted By Mitch
Forced ventillation will always take the path of least resistance, therefore if a door is opened in the room/chamber this would normally offer less resistance than a ducting system, especially an acoustically treated system.
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Posted By John Donaldson
I am slightly confused as to what you are asking and your comment that you “cant feel any cool air coming out”.
If you have a high risk room the air within that room should be at a negative pressure relative to other areas in order to maintain containment. So the air flow is into the room not coming out. The room would then vent to atmosphere though a filtration system if appropriate.
I would certainly agree with your site engineer that in order for the negative pressure to be maintained the doors must be closed. This of course is assuming the air handling system was correctly designed
I don’t know if this is helpful or not.
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Posted By Frank Newman
May,
I'm really not sure what you mean by "high risk" High risk to employees is one thing, high risk to end-users is something else.
However, assuming that you are more likely to be talking about a clean environment which ensures that cleaned clothes do not contaminate their in-use environment then your engineer is a total pillock.
Clean rooms, operating theatres, lab hoods need an assured unidirectional air-flow. The air will be designed to flow in, across contaminated areas and out (though filters if necessary) in a direction that takes it away from employees and nominally clean/sterile materials.
Opening doors and windows may make employees feel more comfortable but will do nothing to ensure the non contamination of the materials you are responsible for.
Get the air conditioning fixed, your engineer fired or replaced and check the air flows. I have found that speed (metres/second or feet per minute) is, in similar circumstances, more important than volume or changes-per-hour.
Changes per hour is OK for employee well being. Air speed is more important where contaminants are concerned.
Make-up air is also necessary. This could come from an open door, so long as it flows directly to the extraction point. But normally it should be designed into the system : example : for a laboratory hood make-up air comes from the front edge of the hood, flows across the material being handled and is removed by extraction horizontally across from the handler. Not by an overhead "chimney"
Merv
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Posted By Frank Newman
May,
sorry, I missed a bit.
You may not be able to detect air flowing. We tend to be a bit insensitive to low level breezes. (comes with the British weather) Air flow meters are very cheap as are bits of bog paper dangled over the inlets and outlets. (qualitative rather than quantitative)
Ask the pillock for the original spec of your air conditioning unit and how can he measure it today.
He is probably right that doors need to be closed for the system to function correctly. If it is working as designed. If it ain't, then fix it. Or him. (want to borrow my gardening shears ?)
Merv
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Posted By May Warley
Thanks alot everybody.
I am currently in a difficult position as my boss wants me to ensure that all doors are shut but I hv worked in that environment before I got this job and it wasn't pleasant at all.
May
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Posted By Frank Newman
May,
it would appear that your boss isn't concerned about employee working conditions. Tough. It happens. But he should be concerned about product quality.
Your clients will require sterile clothing. If the air conditioning system cannot guarantee that requirement then the clients will eventually start to complain. Did you know that the better, higher volume restaurants actually use swabs to check on sterility ?
One of these days you are going to start getting questions, complaints and eventually loss of business. Does that bother your site pillock ? And if a few dozen cases of gastroenteritis (the runs) are traced back to your process, how much is that going to cost ?
Merv
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Posted By steve e ashton
John:
Your advice about negative pressure is correct when you want to keep something in.
But is wrong when you want to keep something out.
So for high risk work on bacteria etc, negative pressure, with filter on the extract.
For kitchens, operating theatres etc - positive pressure, filter on the inlet.
Steve
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Posted By John Donaldson
Steve,
Totally agree with what you said.
I was somewhat confused as to what actually being asked. High risk can mean different things to different people.
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Posted By Frank Newman
I think, from looking at the original question posed by May, that the risk is for the quality/sterility of the product.
The A/C broke down a few months ago. Employees are concerned about their working conditions. Site pillock is insisting that rules be respected even though situation has changed (A/C which requires doors to be kept closed to respect airflow requirements even though A/C is no longer working)
The site pillock is a pillock and should spend more time on getting the A/C fixed than on insisting that employees work in unsuitable conditions.
That way he/she/it could better protect the company from loss of business or a possible law suit.
Has he/she/it got a quote for fixing the A/C ?
Merv
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Posted By May Warley
My boss has hired an experienced Engineer to help him out about 2 mths ago, but the trouble is he refuses to teach the new Engineer to do maintenance/repairs on machines and where things are kept.
But yesterday evening, I was told by this new Engineer that the fans for the a/c which are outside the building are not working, and he is going to look into this today.
The air flow in the high risk room is currently working but I still need to learn up more about positive and negative air flow.
Thanks again for your responses.
May
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