Posted By Dean Stevens

Seems logical and fair enough to me.

Clip on ties should be made compulsory in all schools throughout the UK.

This is not elf + safety gone mad, as the guy quoted.

There are not only the hazards of having the tie pulled into machinary etc but the hazard of general horseplay, it was quite funny at school i remememeber to pull on your mates tie quite hard with him not expecting it,although the intent wasn't to strangle him but for him to spend the next 15-20 minutes untying the tight knot, it can easily be foreseen that during a fight in the playground a pupil may resort to pulling on the other persons tie, this in turn at worst could lead to a murder.

This guy who made the quote should be brought before us.............

Let me at him................

Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,

He doesn't actually say there has never been an incident, what he says is that he has never heard of an incident. Making sweeping statements based on one's own limited experience is the hallmark of the man in the pub. Anyway, I can remember people being swung around by their ties from my own distant schooldays, and have always thought they were just begging for grabbing. This sounds like a good decision to me,

John

Posted By db
I cant believe we've been working with ties for the last x hundred years without having an idea of the risks.

Lets ban all ties straight away - not just in schools but everywhere. I Mean anyone could pull someone's tie and murder them anywhere, not just in school.

We could have the Control of ties at work regs - no - like asbestos lets drop the "at work" part and stop people wearing them for fun.

Perhaps Mr Cameron can bring it up in Parliament.


Are we all mad? Surely everyone is having a laugh and I'm just not getting the joke?

Maybe if there is a risk of it getting tangled in machinery in metalwork (or CDT or whatever its called now) we could JUST TAKE THEM OFF?

Posted By J Knight
Hi Folks,

No, not avin a laugh. Ties are a) silly and b) a hazard. I have stopped wearing a tie at work because of the infection control issues. Point is, if you can eliminate a hazard, you should do so, and ties are a hazard and a) silly and therefore pointless. Its not like glasses or trousers or skirts which people really need to wear, after all,

John

Posted By Dean Stevens

Not having a laugh either.

Ties can be a dangerous item of clothing, why do you think that all police have clip on ones, ok the chance of physical violence, encountering a drug/drunk crazed person is alot higher than the chance of a schoolboy strangling another during a fight but the hazard does remain.

The risk is low but the consequences could be severe, I mean it's not as if you have to spend loads more money out on an alternative to eliminate the hazard is it, How much do clip on ties cost?

A recent trend in suicide hangings with school ties is another reason to abolish them, ok the suicidal person could you use something else, but if a tie is at hand....................

Posted By BB
Yes. Health and Safety gone mad. Definitely. This is control-freakism in an extreme case.

It's probably nothing to do with elfnsafety - just that some anal-retentive can't stand the older students' interpretation of the school tie knot and that clip-on tie = uniform.

Police officers and prison officers wear them due to the risk of serious assault, working with a high incidence of very dangerous people. Even in today's climate of fear, are school kids really in that category of risk?

Posted By Gareth Walsh
Oh no, I sent my kids to school with scarves wrapped round their necks this morning to keep out the cold. I hope they don't come to any harm, you've got me worried now.

Posted By Gareth Walsh
So tell me what's the difference between a loose tie and a loose scarf surely not 'out of context'.

Posted By Reg pearce
Whatever happened to sensible risk management?
As H&S professionals, we should be denouncing the petty bureaucrats who impose rules such as this and counteract the embarrassing publicity our profession is getting in the media.
"Bonkers conkers" anybody?

Posted By John Allen
Actually I think Julie has a point although I would come to a different conclusion. XX years ago when I went to school we removed our ties in technical and art classes (a manually operated printing press in the latter). Although we didn’t know it at the time it was sensible risk management. I don’t think the school in question has done anything unusual, just taken a different decision based on the same risk. We should be careful about basing our opinions on a media news report knowing the possible slant and without knowing the full facts ourselves.

Most of the kids around our way wear open-neck shirts and sweat shirts to school these days; in my office I often seem to be the only one wearing a tie. As a tie provides no warmth and covers no nakedness it is a useless garment. In a few years we’ll probably only wear them for funerals and weddings. Come to think of it, even my paper shredder at home has “no ties” symbol on it. Funny I’ve never seen the manufacturer criticised for it.

Posted By SeanThompson
Bob,

How about when some is quoted as saying it is health and safety gone mad?

You think it should be discussed here?

Posted By Ken Taylor
So lots of ties will be readily stolen as 'trophies' from wearers and need replacing at some cost.

Posted By Barrie Etter
Personally, as a bow tie wearer I don't what all the fuss is about. Bring back the cane and knock some sense into the blighters to remove themselves from the hazard before they put they put themselves in danger.
Badger

Posted By Pete48
Now look here. My old school tie still has the knot in it that I took 3 months to perfect all those years ago. My son wore it for seven years when he attended alma mater and my grandson will hopefully wear it also.
It has successfully supported us through hard times as well as better times. It was once used to lower me over the ramparts between upper and lower school.
Ban ties???? Goodness me, where we will be if young chaps have no idea how to tie a proper knot. Where will it all end?
This is a lovely story that illustrates just how you can get H&S into absolutely anything if you try hard enough. Thanks for the chance to relax a bit.
Now what about belt and braces next??

Posted By Merv Newman
The wekepedia entry is fascinating for all interested in the discussion on ties :

"Opponents of necktie wearing have cited risks associated with the wearing of neckties as an argument for discontinuing the practice. These risks have primarily involved entanglement, infection, and vascular constriction. The risk of entanglement is generally well understood by people working around machinery or in situations where person-to-person confrontation may occur (e.g., police and prison personnel, and in certain medical fields).[2] The answer is generally to avoid wearing ties, or use the clip-on variety which detach from the wearer when grabbed. The risk of cross-infection of patients by doctors wearing ties is being treated seriously by hospitals,[3] it being noted that ties are cleaned less often than most items of clothing and can carry bacteria. Doctors routinely lean across patients and ties frequently come into contact with patients, therefore bow ties have traditionally been popular with doctors. The risk of vascular constriction, in cases where ties are worn with over-tight collars, has been noted. Studies have shown an increase in intra-ocular pressure in these cases which can worsen the condition of people with already weakened retinas.[4] People with glaucoma should exercise special care. In all cases sensible precautions can mitigate these risks; the danger lies in lack of awareness of the risks. Paramedics performing basic life support remove the tie from a victim as one of the very first steps when a victim is unconscious or has difficulty breathing to ensure it does not compromise the airway."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie

With all homages to the rather cheap person who has maintained a school tie for three generations (Sorry about the formulation "rather cheap". I DO understand the pride and wish that my son's children were also going to Ricky Grammar) (plain maroon, Total)(Nisi Dominus Aedificarverit)(Fotherley house) but a lovely badge on the blazer.

Merv