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#1 Posted : 22 March 2007 16:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By John_72 Just a query regarding the recommended temperature of hot water from taps. My understanding is that the ideal temperature should be approximately 60 degrees to effectively kill any legionella bacteria. However our issue is that as we provide services to young children and the elderly were there is a higher risk of scalding from hot taps. Bearing in mind that taps (in most cases) are used frequently so there is little time for stagnation and that any aerosilization is small than compared to showers and air con units and that the breathe zone of the invidual is not close (with the possible exception of children using adult sized basins and sinks) i am of a mind that a risk assessment would show that the likelihood of legionella exposure from taps would be low and that a reduction in temperature at the thermostat would be acceptable as the likelihood of scalding is higher. i also believe that no known outbreak of legionella has ever been attributed to taps, is this the case? Can anyone enlighten me further please as this is one of those issues that i would like to be able to offer some degree of clarity on to our managers.
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#2 Posted : 22 March 2007 17:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Hi John, You need TMV3 failsafe regulatory valves which will mix the hot and cold feed, failing to off if the cold feed is interrupted. From memory you need to site your valve within a metre of the outlet; as long as the water downstream of the valve is at 60 or more your thermal disinfection will work and the dead leg is too short to pose a risk, provided the throughput is high enough. If your taps are going to be unused you need a flushing schedule (somebody has to turn them on and let them run for a bit once a week or so). We have various water sterilisation schemes in our current buildings; I prefer thermal disinfection as its simple and very effective, but we also operate with UV and Silver/Copper ion systems; they work well but are more technically complex and have been a little temperamental at odd times. I don't know whether anybody has ever acquired a legionella type infection from a tap, if they have it would be rare; usually even vulnerable people need to inhale a good dollop of aerosol, John
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#3 Posted : 22 March 2007 17:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy John, Liklehood of taps producing a spray which could then be inhaled into lungs is, as you say, low, however your suggestion to lower the thermostat temp is not the way forward. Stored water, ie in the calorifier (hot water cylinder) needs to be raised to the temperature of approx 63 degrees to kill of any bugs, legionella and others, which have entered via the mains water supply. If you lower this to 40 degrees you are providing the bugs with the top end of their comfort zone for proliferation so run the risk of not sterilizing the water which would raise the risk of bugs getting to water outlets, and then further multiplying. Keep the thermostat at 63 degrees and fit thermstatic mixer valves under your sinks to limit the temperature of the water at the taps to 35 to 45 degrees, which is most suitable or recommended for your operation. Need to keep checking for legionella though. There was a recent similar thread so search and you will find more info. time to go, the beer is calling Holmezy
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#4 Posted : 22 March 2007 17:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy here it is; http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...um=1&thread=26667&page=1 definately beer time Holmezy
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#5 Posted : 23 March 2007 09:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul A. Swift I thought that the hot water temperature needed to be a minimum of 50 Deg. Celcius. Would not lowering the Hot water temperature to just over 50 degrees resolve all of the issues?
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#6 Posted : 23 March 2007 09:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By stevehaigh JOHN IS SPOT ON WITH HIS INFO
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#7 Posted : 23 March 2007 09:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By stevehaigh SORRY I MEANT Holmezy
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#8 Posted : 23 March 2007 10:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By MT Paul, the temperature of the hot water at the taps must reach 50 deg C within 1 minute of being run. Water in the calorifier should be at 60 degrees or above to actually kill the legionella organisms. Recommended monthly checks in L8 are that the water leaving the calorifier should be at least 60, and the water returning to it should be at least 50.
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#9 Posted : 23 March 2007 10:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Granville Jenkins Hi John If you take on board the comments made by J Knight and Holmezy you won't go wrong! I have recently introduced (well last year to be precise) TMV3 fail-safe valves and used automatic taps which work of a built in infra-red sensor to a suite of toilets and together they do an excellent job, not that I am suggesting that you need to go down the infra-red route - but I can thoroughly recommend it as a solution to those with a budget to accommodate! Regards Granville
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