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#1 Posted : 26 March 2007 09:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Anders Molko
A girl in my place is complaining of RSI from the use of her computer. She is suffering from problems with her wrist from using the mouse on the computer.

I’ve ergonomically assessed her workstation and its set up so as to follow the guidelines.

Any advice on the whole mouse issue?

It’s a normal mouse, the elbows are at desk level with the armrests of the chair etc
Any ideas?
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#2 Posted : 26 March 2007 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dean Stevens

We had a similar problem on site, although i think "achy wrist" and not RSI was the case in this incident, are you sure it's RSI?

Anyhow we purchased these girls some mouse mats that were made out of a jelly like substance, the mouse mat had a raised mound to the front that the wrist would rest upon whilst the operator was using the mouse. The girls were very happy with this solution and the "achy wrists" went away, what's more the girls were thrilled that they could choose either a pink or red one, it's not hard pleasing some eh?

Hope this helps.
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#3 Posted : 26 March 2007 10:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte
Perhaps look at the amount of mouse usage vs keyboard, as the keyboard usuage should be considerably higher than the mouse, though this may vary in type of work.

There are ways in which you can reduce mouse use and the movements between mouse and keyboard can also result in RSI. One of the easiest ways I have used to help this is to provide a short list of windows short cuts such as 'ctrl c' for copy 'ctrl x' for paste but there are many more which people dont know about or use and use the mouse for. Not only does it reduce mouse work but also speeds up / increases productivity.

Another option could be if the person is leaving their hand in a strained position hovering over the mouse perhaps with their fingers raised straining the tendons, even when not using the mouse which could occur a lot if people are looking through documents or browsing webpages. "Posturite" not only have a range of ergonomic mice, but I remember seeing last year (or year before) in Birmingham NEC a vibrating mouse which when still for a set period of time ie. 10 seconds vibrated to make people realise to take their hands away if not using the mouse.

I have also had pains in my wrists associated with mouse work but just did a simple swop for about 3 months I only used my left hand for using the mouse, took a bit of getting used to but ended up fine. Can now change between the two and try to keep it varied

Hope this helps
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#4 Posted : 26 March 2007 10:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By MICHAEL T
I use a mouse with a roller ball which I find far earlier on the wrist. I have used this ever since I was a statistician in a former life, with 4 hours + of constant data input per day. I would never go back to a standard mouse after using one of these. However, colleagues have tried to use it and hated it. At the end of the day it's personal choice.
Regards
Mike
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#5 Posted : 26 March 2007 11:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy

Unless she has been assesses and diagnosed by an Occupational therapist then its too early to say its RSI. Set up the workstation, assess it, buy her a new mat, mouse, arm support etc, give her guidance, monitor her, if its still a problem, send her to occy health, then act on the recomendations.

Holmezy
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#6 Posted : 26 March 2007 13:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I totally agree with Michael T. I use a trackball as I have a touch of carpal tunnel problem. The difference is enormous once you get used to it.

The problem with wrist rests is that they encourage the use of the wrist to move the mouse rather than the whole arm with the wrist locked. All those going down this route need to look out for such problems or face later claims.

Bob
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#7 Posted : 26 March 2007 13:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Arm rests can be a real restrictor on effective posture and free movement, I often recommend these are removed from the chair ( this is usually met with resistance by the user!). "Mice" come in several sizes. A small hand and a large mouse = problem.
Is the software/training/knowledge compatible with keyboard shortcuts instead?
Gel-filled mats are generally mis-used (and mis-named) as "wrist rests". They are designed to encourage good posture, not to be leant on.If repeatedly misused, they form a very effective moulded 'trap' for the nerves good posture seeks to protect!
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#8 Posted : 26 March 2007 13:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Taylor14
send her to your occy health dept for assessment
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#9 Posted : 26 March 2007 14:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Right now I am in my habitual posture, in the middle of a 10 page report. Elbow is on the arm rest, wrist is on a flat mat at the edge of my desk, slightly higher than the arm-rest.

Sometimes the fingers of my mouse hand are in the air, but usually resting lightly on the mouse.

And its a portable.

No detectable problem.

I think you need to re-evaluate your DSE and actually OBSERVE the person at work. half a day of your time would be worth it.

Merv
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#10 Posted : 26 March 2007 16:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Get a trackball mate they are great and are quite cheep, logitec do em!

http://www.dealtime.co.u...kMan-Optical-904369-0914
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#11 Posted : 26 March 2007 17:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Daniel
You might want to try a graphics tablet which uses a pen to replicate mouse movement - I've been using one for years and find them faster and my wrist doesn't ache.

I normally advise I.T depts have a a stock of "gadgets" like trackballs, wrist pads, tablets, ergonomic keyboards to let people have a try - they're all cheap.
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#12 Posted : 26 March 2007 18:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
In response to each of the questions you raise:

1. Any advice on the whole mouse issue?

As other respondents have indicated the design of input devices, including a mouse, vary as do the construction of hands of users.

Sometimes, changing the input device suits a user better: a vertical mouse or Quill can be more effective for some, including myself, who have suffered greatly from using other devices.

Yet it may well be that 'the mouse' alone is not the root problem.

2. Any ideas?

As you have stated nothing about

a. the task activities she does and the extent to which these can be varied to reduce the amount of repetitive activities which is often associated with 'cumulative' trauma (in a variety of settings including some sports and playing some musical instruments)

b. the training she has been given, especially to do brief desk-based exercises to relieve strain on an hourly basis.

c. any official monthly records of monitoring of reported symptoms or freedom from them that is the kind of good practice that an expert witness would reasonably look for in the event that the case might go to a personal injury claim.

As the relevant medical specialists (rheumatologists) often report great difficulty determining a form of intervention (surgery or injection) that relieves pain from severely damaged conditions, the more you can do to change the employee's pattern of work and restful exercises the better. You can enlarge your present options by commissioning a registered ergonomist to conduct the investigation Merv proposes.
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#13 Posted : 26 March 2007 18:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By RP
I remember an American Occupational Health doing a study on this one some time ago, if I can find the document I'll email it...
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#14 Posted : 26 March 2007 18:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By RP
10 Tips for Using a Computer Mouse

The following tips should help you avoid a mouse-related musculoskeletal injury. The same posture principles apply to other input devices (e.g. trackball, touchpad, pen, digitizing puck etc.). Postural variation is a key factor for good ergonomics. Try to regularly vary your posture when you work with a mouse, and in this way you will help to minimize the risk of ergonomic problems. remember, the best ergonomic mice are designed to allow you to vary your posture while working with the mouse.

1. Mouse Grip - don't throttle your mouse (it's already dead)! Hold the mouse gently to move it over a mousing surface.
2. Mouse from the Elbow - don't skate or flick the mouse with your wrist. Make controlled mouse movements using your elbow as the pivot point and keep your wrist straight and neutral.
3. Optimal Mouse position- sit back in your chair, relax your arms then lift your mousing hand up, pivoting at the elbow, until your hand is just above elbow level. Your mouse should be positioned somewhere around this point. Don't use a mouse by stretching to the desk or out to the side of a keyboard. With a flat mouse platform, position this 1-2" above the keyboard and over the numeric keypad if you are right handed - you can easily move it out of the way if you need to access these keys. With a downward sloping mouse platform, position this close to the side of the keyboard so that you can use the mouse in a neutral wrist position. Position adjustable mouse platforms are commercially available (e.g. Humanscale, Proformix, Flexrest, 3M etc.)
4. Protect your wrist - if you look at the anatomy of the wrist it is curved away from any contact surface (you can easily see this by resting your hand/arm on a flat surface - you'll see light under the wrist and can probably even pass a thin pen under this). The forearm is shaped liked this for the wrist to remain free of surface pressure contact.
5. Avoid restricting circulation - For may people there are exposed blood vessels near the skin at the wrist, which is where the pulse is often taken. Any pressure in this region will disrupt circulation into the hand and this will increase the risks of injury.
6. Don't use a Wrist Rest - research has shown that using a wrist rest doubles the pressure inside the carpal tunnel, because the floor of the tunnel is a more flexible ligament that transmits external pressure changes directly into the carpal tunnel (the roof of the tunnel is bone so the pressure doesn't get transmitted on through the hand). Indeed, one test for carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS), know as Tinel's sign, simply involves tapping on the palmar surface of the wrist, which is enough to cause tingling and numbness in someone developing CTS.
7. Avoid Restricting Arm Movement - with a softly padded wrist rest, especially one that is rounded, or a soft chair arm rest the forearm becomes "locked" into position and this encourages people to make mouse movements by flicking the wrist, which also increases intracarpal pressure.
8. Keep the Mouse Free Moving - The base of the palm of the hand is the part of the body designed to support the hand when resting on a surface. For keyboard use a broad palm support is best. However, mouse use is different from keyboard use. With a keyboard the best posture is for users to float their hands over the keyboard when typing and then to rest on the palm support in microbreaks between typing bursts. You can use rest-breaking software (e.g. Magnitude ErgoManager, Break reminder etc) to help track and advise on your mouse use. With mousing this doesn't happen. A mouse is used by moving its position over a surface, and resting usually occurs when mouse movements stop but with the mouse still being held in the hand. Mouse movements should be made using the elbow as the pivot point, not the wrist. Anything that impairs free movement of the forearm/hand and mouse will increase injury risks.
9. Mouse shape - choose a mouse design that fits your hand but is as flat as possible to reduce wrist extension. Don't use a curved mouse. Use a symmetrically shaped mouse. Consider a larger mouse and there are several new interesting products on the market , such as the Whale mouse or the Perfit mouse, that encourage arm rather than wrist movements or that encouirage postural variety and one or two-handed use. Pen-based mice designs also allow a more comfortable grip.
10. Load sharing - if you want to load share between your right and left hands, that is using the mouse for some of the time with each hand. For this you need to choose a mouse platform that can easily be configured to the left or/and right, and a symmetrical shaped mouse that can be used by either hand.
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