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#1 Posted : 22 April 2007 11:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amjad Al Ata Hi all, Firstly sorry because what I am going to write seems to be not HS related. (may be it is!). I have experienced only one kind of bossed during my work life (8 years). The main feature of this kind is "TO LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE & FIND OUT ONLY THE NEGATIVE PART OF IT - ALMOST WITHOUT EVEN REAL CHECK OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE). Is there any other kind of bosses? I do believe that there is no 100% perfect, I do believe that it is good to tell me what is need to be improved in my work but at the same time to accept the good parts (it motivates). I am writing because I am so disappointed right now & I have no body to talk to! Thanks for reading this Amjad
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#2 Posted : 22 April 2007 11:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Amjad, there are many types of bosses. At the extremes you will get those who only know how to criticise. I think this covers about 80% of bosses. These are the ones who PUSH their people to do better. At the other extreme you will get the bosses who LEAD their teams. Sadly, these are much rarer. We are talking about the boss who will give public recognition to the person or the team who have done well. ("Hey, Amjad, I like what you did today. That was a good question you asked !") Recognition, Reward (a smile or a kind word will do) and Reinforcement. One work team will give a certain minimum of performance because they have to, just to avoid negative consequences. Another team will give maybe 200% because their efforts are recognised and rewarded. Merv
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#3 Posted : 22 April 2007 11:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Amjad Clearly you have a situation that concerns you greatly. Without naming names and or companies can you give some more detail? Stress is common in the workplace as is bullying, both good quality H&S related areas; I may be wrong, but reading between the lines you speak volumes. CFT
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#4 Posted : 22 April 2007 11:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Amjad, sorry but I'm coming back with a second reply having reread your posting. Traditional bosses have a tendency to look for the error. Coming across a person who is 90% correct they will criticise the 10% without mentioning the 90% When I start with the 90% the person will often admit to the 10% and do something to correct it. With a smile. Amjad, I'm making an assumption here that you have children. Remember the day when your first child took his/her first steps. Then fell down ? Did you criticise the mistake, or congratulate the success ? Merv
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#5 Posted : 22 April 2007 11:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amjad Al Ata The Job: Developing Emergency Response Plan for Residential Environment. What I've stated firstly that this is not an easy job (for me it is an easy job to develop ERP for refinery or power plant than for hospital/residential complex/university). I refused to use a ready made template (guidance) & said we need to build it on what we have on earth. After full weekend of finalization work (evacuation strategy, analysis of fire related systems in place, the available human factor, external factors .. etc) I drafted it The methodology I followed is to consider & deeply study all potential situations so as to reach a simple, precise & clear outcome. Upon handing over, all what I received after quick reading that the cover of it is not professional!!! Amjad
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#6 Posted : 22 April 2007 12:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Amjad, as I said, they will criticise the 10% and not recognise the 90%. Don't worry. This is what 90% of us have to put up with every day. Go with the flow and kiss the wife and kids when you get home. That's the most important part of life. You should also pat the dog. Merv
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#7 Posted : 22 April 2007 15:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave West Hi Amjad, I remember how hard you studied when we were both doing our NEBOSH at the same time so i know how commited you are to your job. Unforunatly there are plenty of managers out there who have no people skills and who by not motivating staff dont realise how much they lose out on. You have my e-mail if you need to talk mate. Dave
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#8 Posted : 23 April 2007 14:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs Amjad, I had one of those bosses a couple of years ago. Thankfully they got rid of him and promoted me. I have been blessed with good bosses in all my other jobs - they do exist, and they need to be identified when you go for your job interview. I like the ones that ask you a question and then help you with the answer - they are the ones that genuinely want people to succeed. Look for that. Don't dispair, keep copies of what you do because they'll come in handy when you move on. Meanwhile, take note of the kind offer above and chat.
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#9 Posted : 23 April 2007 15:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB Amjad, As has been stated above, you get good bosses and you get bad ones. The bad ones tell you what they want but with little detail and limited information and then criticise when it's not to their liking. The good bosses lead you in the right direction, explain what they want (to various degree of detail depending on the situation) and then suggest ways of further improving your work when you've finished. In my experience the bad managers have a high turnover of staff and a team suffering from poor moral. That manager will also be less likely to be promoted because the performance of the team will be adequate rather than outstanding but there will not be anyone mentored for promotion. The better managers will have staff who work harder and more effectively, will be driven and self-motivated and will be continuously improving due to constructive advice, guidance and leadership. The better manager will also have greater opportunities for promotion due to having a more efficient workforce, have people being developed for leadership and have greater backing.
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#10 Posted : 23 April 2007 15:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I used to be scared of my boss. Thinking that he would do me down whenever possible. Then he got me a promotion up to his level. Then I got even higher than him. We stay friends. He was "Division Head of Services" (next door to Buncefield) I was "risk management coordinator" later "European safety consultant" Nowadays he runs Hatfield private air port, I think, and I run my own consultancy business. Plus que ca change, ca change .... Merv
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#11 Posted : 23 April 2007 16:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh I believe that this is about Management and Leadership skills. In the UK it often seems that Managers and Leaders are born and not made. How many Managers have had formal Management / Leadership training? It is worth asking this question in your organisation. Why is it that people like Electricians (or even H&S Professionals) MUST have formal training, but not Managers?
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#12 Posted : 23 April 2007 18:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Hi Amjad, Forgive me for guessing your age but I think you are mid 20's and in your first job. When I was that age I had been where you are now, a few times. I have had many bosses during my working life - some good and some bad, but I have taken positive things from the good ones and virtually nothing from the bad ones. (Apart from remembering how bad they were). I have been a boss myself and was respected by the workforce but not too well liked by those above me, however they did continue to promote me (Fire Brigade). I am now self employed and in a position to work for who I want, when I want and have dropped some clients recently because they do not listen to me or act on my advice. I am now considering dropping a good client because they have suddenly started being negative toward me and I can do without that attitude. There is always someone else who needs me! If you want some advice from me you will ride the present tide and come out of it positively. One day you may feel confident enough to take on self employment and enjoy different pressures. Good luck
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#13 Posted : 23 April 2007 20:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48 There is, of course, a view that we get the bosses we deserve or are prepared to tolerate. For me in the case you describe, there is much that can be taken that is good. This thread touches on the point that what is not said is often as important as what is said. However, in your case, a comprehensive report has been accepted for its content apart from one very minor presentational comment. Your boss may well expect such professional standards from you and therefore believe that you accept such comments as maintaining your own high standards and that you do not cherish praise for praise sake. (sort of have a nice day syndrome) If you feel you have made a special effort to get this done, find a way to let your boss know this when you take back the redesigned front page. Bosses who praise every time are usually in my experience not very sincere in their praise: it can get devalued with too much use. Now some simple manners like "thanks for....." is something different
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#14 Posted : 23 April 2007 20:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave West Amjad i think you are right in your expectancy for some praise. We all do our job for all kinds of reasons whether it be money or the cause to make sure people get home in the same health condition that they came to work in but whether it be one or both we all have one thing in common. We need some job satisfaction! I know that when i handed in my latest policy and was given praise for it i got that satisfaction but i'm sure that if it all went unoticed i would not get it.
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#15 Posted : 24 April 2007 08:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By TBC I've had also had 'the good the bad and the ugly'. What to do about it? Simple - look elsewhere for that special job. You certainly won't enjoy the job and be able to give it you fullest if you're under pressure on a daily basis. Totally agree with Crim doing your own thing has many benefits and the more you can deliver the better i.e. Fire, Training Courses as well as the usual H&S. I can remember one client how was totally against his employees being trained to drive the FLTs. He (a director) also had a go driving the trucks at busy times - I managed to talk him around and he even took the instruction and test he then saw it as a bit of competition to pass and thoroughly enjoyed it. I know he practised in the evening when everyone had gone home. So try and get as many courses under your belt as you search for that ideal position and Good Luck.
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#16 Posted : 24 April 2007 10:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amjad Al Ata Dear All, I would like firstly to thank you very much, you may not know how your responses supported me. It is life & I have to keep learning. I am trying to cope with the situation, to find the positive part of it & to try change it (by work). Thanks to all of you Amjad
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