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Posted By Melanie Fellows
I have been asked to get an internal fire door cut in half (stable style), so that it can be used as a serving hatch from a small kitchen.
I'm pretty sure that this is not acceptable, but my advice has been over-ruled.
Does anyone know where I can find regulations regarding this ?(or does anyone have advice on this?)
Thanks.
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Posted By Chris Pope
It won't necessarily comply with its british standard specification if you do that
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
I realise it won't comply - the issue is what regulations can I flash at them to prove it?
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
There you go, another daft idea.
The splitting of the fire door makes it no longer a fire door. The RRFO requires a suitable and sufficient risk assessment. Also look at the Building Regulations 2000 April 2007 version. IOf this fails to convince them ask your local fire chief for his help, that should raise a few eyebrows in the enforcing authority (which is what your fire chief is).
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Posted By Amanda
Melanie
In answer to above I would 'flash' the RR(FS)O 2005 at them. In particular Article 17 the Maintenance of equipment/facilities provided to safeguard the safety of relevant persons.
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Posted By Simon Dean
Mel
If you can get hold of a copy of Fire door assemblies BS 8214 you will find it has all the information you need, you can buy a copy from BSI unless anyone on here has a copy they can send you.
Hope it helps
Simon.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Your first action is to carry out a fire risk assessment of the area where the door is. If the door is required as a fire door then the 'responsible person' (the employer) has a duty to maintain that door. Not to do so is a criminal offence. This is in the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 which came into force last October.
Fire doors are often found where they are not required so you have to be certain that the door is required. If the door leads into a corridor or stairwell then it is quite likely to be required as a fire door. If it a single storey building then the chances are that the door is not required to be a fire door.
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
The door is onto a corridor on the first floor of a six floor building. Behind the door is a small kitchen which leads into a small storage room that also contains electrical panels. So my findings in a fire risk assessment would be that the door is required as a fire door.
The frightening thing is we had an electrical fire last September, just along the same corridor for which the fire door was praised for containing the blaze, thus saving the building. I would have thought that safety was still fresh in everyones' mind and that I would not have to struggle to get people to take advice!
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Posted By jackw.
Hi, nothing to add re the general advice already given but you may also wish to mention that your building insurance company may not be too happy and should be informed of the reduction in fire safety re this door.
Cheers
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Posted By Crim
I would not recommend modifying an existing fire door in any way, however there may be a fire door on the market that is manufactured in such a way that it is a stable type with adequate seals and self closing devices.
Try searching the web.
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Posted By TBC
Sounds like this door is there to protect an escape route as well as contain a possible fire. It also sounds like the door to the electrical cupboard did it's job so this door into the corridor is to safeguard things going wrong in the kitchen. As Crim says try and find a suitable fire door to replace if you have to, but ensure it has the BS and is up to the multi-job role.
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Posted By Jason Warren
Have had a quick look on the internet and I cannot find any mention of a fire resistant stable door. I did manage to find a fire resistant hatch which can be inserted into a fire compartment wall and can offer 1 hr fire resistance. Is there an adjacent wall which a hatch could be installed?
As everybody has stated would not advise making any major alterations to fire doors. New fire doors come with a warranty from the manufacturer and if they are not installed in accordance with there instructions and by approved installers the warranty is void. This is because when the fire doors are tested in the lab they are installed in accordance with their instructions. If you change the way they are installed or make alterations to the door, fixtures, fittings etc. then the manufacturer can no longer guarantee that they will give you sufficient protection against the spread of fire and smoke.
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Posted By garyh
Step back a bit here; is it absolutely necessary to have a fire resistant door here? Review your fire RA with the door cut in two and see what you conclude.
It may be that it is acceptable to cut it. Of course you would need a competent person to make this assessment (which may be yourself!)
Was the fire door put in out of necessity or was it a nice to have?
In my view in safety generally it is not the case that nothing can ever change, however it is the "management of change" which is the key.
Hope this helps.
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
The fire door is a requirement - my fire RA concludes this.
The door protects the corridor (which is a main escape route) from smoke/ fire.
Thanks to everyone who posted advice - I have collated it all together to support my case. Hopefully I will get the decision forcing me to cut the door in half withdrawn.
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
News just in - my points have been noted, however I am to carry on getting the fire door cut in half.
It's great being an advisor!
However, before I get the joiner in, I will be contacting our local fire authority, our building manager and our insurance company.
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Posted By garyh
If I were you I would state your objections in writing to your manager etc. This will cover you in the event or any repercussions.
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