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Posted By Edward9
I'm sure this has been touched on before in previous threads but looking back I can't find an actual yes/no answer.
Is the roof included when calculating the less that 50% enclosure rule for smoking shelters?
Thanks
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Posted By SeanThompson
I think the answer is no. But why would you want a smoking shelter with no roof?
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Posted By John Murgatroyd Yes. If you don't have a roof, you can have four walls and a door ! If you have a roof the walls must be less than 50% enclosed. IE: instead of being four walls, there will be 1 back and 2 half-sides ! (the roof must overhang the sides !) See: http://www.norwich.gov.u...okefree/No4_Shelters.pdf
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Posted By Edward Shyer
No Roof then not an enclosed space under the Regs!
If there is a roof then as John says there must be more than 50% open space within the smoking shelter.
Just convinced my Manager to install a retractable roof so that we can smoke to our hearts content whenever the roof is retracted. This will improve productivity as we will not be skiving off for a fag every half hour.
Regards
Ted
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Posted By Merv Newman
There is actually no requirement to provide smoking shelters. Should the employer wish to provide them then they must be substantionally "unenclosed" and this only refers to the walls. Less than 50%, not counting doors and windows. roofs are not mentioned.
In France, devolving from the same EU legislation, we have a totally different interpretation. Smoking areas must be totally enclosed with "sufficient" ventilation.
Many employers who had previously provided smoking cabins are now ripping them out as they do not wish to comply with the "adequate ventilation" requirements. Costs.
It is becoming a "smoke outside and make up the lost time at the end of the day, or stop smoking" culture. IE "you want 10 minutes free time to smoke your clop ? then you will owe us 10 minutes"
Tough, but fair in my opinion.
Merv (pipe smoker)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
For the purposes of section 2 of the Act, premises are enclosed if they—
(a) have a ceiling or roof; and
(b) except for doors, windows and passageways, are wholly enclosed either permanently or temporarily.
(2) For the purposes of section 2 of the Act, premises are substantially enclosed if they have a ceiling or roof but there is—
(a) an opening in the walls; or
(b) an aggregate area of openings in the walls,
which is less than half of the area of the walls, including other structures that serve the purpose of walls and constitute the perimeter of the premises.
(3) In determining the area of an opening or an aggregate area of openings for the purposes of paragraph (2), no account is to be taken of openings in which there are doors, windows or other fittings that can be opened or shut.
(4) In this regulation "roof" includes any fixed or moveable structure or device which is capable of covering all or part of the premises as a roof, including, for example, a canvas awning.
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As you can read, the roof is mentioned.
They are sunstantially enclosed if they have a ceiling or ROOF but there is an opening in the walls, or an aggregate area of openings in the walls, which is less than half the area of the walls.
IE: If it has a roof, the walls must be less than 50%. If it's a square shelter, there will only be two walls (minus a bit !)
But Merv is right, you DO NOT NEED A SHELTER !
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Posted By Steve Cartwright
Depends if your standing on it. If your standing under it then yes it is included.
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Posted By Alan Hoskins
Sorry Ted - a retractable roof is a roof under the legislation, but you knew that didn't you...
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Alan,
Yes I know that but my manager came up with the idea and he thinks its a brilliant idea and wants it to happen. Unconvincable Managers don't we just love them.
Regards
Ted
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Posted By David Bramall
I am about to go through the roof
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
That's ok, you can use a parasol or umbrella, which will [probably] minimise physical damage in that case. You MAY also NOT need planning permission in that case.
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