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Posted By RichardJ
If I have an construction project that requires 40 persons on site (different contractors and trades) for 10 days then it is not notifiable. Hence no requirement for CDM Coordinator, No Principal Contractor, No Construction H&S Plan and No H&S File.
Just good cooperation, coordination and competent designers, contractors and workers complying with other Regs e.g. LOLER.
Just checking whether this is fundamentally correct because the 1994 regs had the >4 persons trigger?
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Posted By Peter MacDonald
I'll throw my hat in here!
As given the project is less than 30 days duration and 500man days so not notifiable. I would say you are correct.
Peter
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
The notification rules are clear, but please be aware that as the number approaches 50 you could find that the 500 hours total could be exceeded because of a sudden influx of extra workers.
Does not mean totally that you do not need to have a management plan or that you do not give the client relevant information for him to put in the H&S file though. A competent contractor would be expected to do this in any case.
It simply removes the defined needs of part 3. Remember that information provision, principles of prevention etc also apply.
Bob
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Posted By Catman
Hi Richard
Unless I have misread or misunderstood....
40 people for 10 days at say approx 8 hours per day equals 3200 person hours therefore this project would be reportable.
cheers
TW
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Apologies
My typo - operative days not hours:-)
Bob
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Posted By Catman
Sorry, ignore me, I'm in hours mode instead of days. I'll go back to sleep.
Cheers
TW
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Just to amplify what Bob says above (this from a previous thread too) -the Client has a duty with respect to the H&S File: " The file should therefore be kept up to date after any relevant work or surveys".
It follows then that there should be some written agreement between Designers and a "Principal" Contractor to allow the Client to comply.
As previously discussed, this H&S File requirement doesn't 'leap out' of the Regs or ACoP.
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Posted By John Holland1
You say that the requirement for H&S File does not leap out of the Regs or the ACOP. Can you tell me where either state that a project that is not notifiable requires a H&S File.
Regards
John
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Read regulation 17(3)b carefully and its context. It has been misleadingly placed because it clearly identifies that AFTER the construction phase the file is revised as often as appropriate to incorporate any relevant new information.
This then ties back to regulation 10(2) information to be provided for all construction work. If the client has undertaken other work since the file production and it is relevant to the file, he can reasonably provide this information and therefore must - If it is not in the file a breach of 17(3)b has occurred.
I think the drafters were trying to tie too many duties into one regulation - but the duty is there. As I have said previously a competent contractor or designer would expect to provide this information - the real problem for clients is having the skill necessary to undertake the duty.
Bob
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Posted By Pam Hickey-Jenkin
Hi,
I have found that the CITB publication GE 700 (section A8) gives a fairly good translation of the new regs & requirements etc...well, as best as possible...
The following comes from GE 700, A8, page 7:-
"where the work is non-notifiable, the client does not have to:
- appoint a CDM co-ordinator
- appoint a principle contractor
- ensure a written 'health & safety plan' is prepared
with regard the last point, even when not part of a notifiable project, some types of construction activity will require a written plan of work, for example a method statement, possible supported by a permit to work.
Examples are:
- demolition work
- work with asbestos
- work in a confined space
- work involving a tandem crane lift
work on or near live electrical equipment
The requirement for competence at all levels and the arrangments for the co-ordination of
work and co-operation between all those working on the project still apply to non-notifiable projects."
Then on page 8, it goes on to say...
"The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) has provided the following examples of work it considers higher risk where, even though the project is non-notifiable, something closer to a formal construction health & safety plan will be required:-
- significant structural alterations
- work in deep excavations, particularly in unstable or contaminated ground
unusual working methods or unfamiliar safeguards
- working with ionising radiation or other significant health hazards
working near to high voltage powerlines
- a risk of falling into fast flowing water
- work that involves diving
- work that involves the use of explosives
heavy or complicated lifting operations"
I hope this helps....
Regards,
Pam
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Pam
Let us not forget the duties under regulation 13 for all contractors undertaking non-notifiable work. The duty is to plan, manage and monitor which to me means that in some instances the plan may well be written in some form suitable and commensurate to the work.
Bob
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Posted By Pam Hickey-Jenkin
Bob,
As has already been stated...by yourself I think..... a 'competent contractor would be expected to do this in any case'...
Regards,
Pam
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Pam
Sorry to use you as a vehicle to remind all our readers, yet again, of the need to not view individual items without recognising the related context and duties:-)
It is difficult to know how the average client on small works is going to perform his duties. The "experts" are still struggling at times.
Bob
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Posted By John Holland1
I still do not see where there is a requirement for a H & S file for work that is not notifiable
John
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Posted By Catman
John
The requirement is to update the existing file after any subsequent work, to ensure it stays accurate.
This would be required even if the work was not notifiable.
E.g. moving the location of the main distribution board would probably not be notifiable, but you would probably want to update the existing H&S file to reflect the new location.
Cheers
TW
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Posted By John Holland1
Point me to where it states that there is a requirement for a H & S file to be compiled on a Project that is not notifiable.
John
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
John
Regulation 17(3)b places that duty on the client quite specifically after a notifiable job has occurred and the new/updated file is presented to him by the CDMC. If the client does not update then there is a breach.
Bob
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Perhaps I should add that if there is no existing file then one will not be required to be created unless notifiable work is undertaken or the client does so on his own behest.
Once the file exists the duties come into effect.
Bob
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Posted By John Holland1
Thank you Bob. That is the very point that i have been making. That on projects that are notifiable, then there is a requirement for a H&S file to be compliled and where a project is not notifiable then a H&S file is not required to be compiled.
John
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
John
However if a client does not have a H&S file then he needs to collect the information identified in the appendix concerning the H&S file from any contractor performing construction work that is not notifiable. He then needs to record this information in order to ensure it is available in the future. This would be via some sort of file related to the structure so that he can present this to contractors, or CDMCs etc., whether or not the next work is notifiable. It will then be necessary to add or update the information in this file. This is not yet the H&S File but it is as near as can be without actually using the name. The H&S file is a tool to record specific information concerning the structure. If we stop regarding it as a paperwork exercise for notifiable work but rather a useful piece of business information then its real purpose can be discerned - It helps to prevent injury and ill health in the future whenever work is to be done.
Bob
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