Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 18 May 2007 08:05:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ian Mitchell Good morning. I recently had to pull up a scaffold company subbing for us because it was raining and they had left the protective film on all of the ladders, only removing it from the rungs themselves. I regarded it as dangerous as your hands would struggle to grip the damp shrinkwrap. The scaffolder said it didn't matter as you were supposed to climb using the rungs anyway. I was always told by scaffolders that you didn't hold the rungs when climbing as if the rung snapped you were going backwards to the ground! Is this just the old fashioned way (when ladders were wooden etc) or was the scaffolder wrong? Hardly the biggest issue ever but it is now bugging me! Any scaffolder want to give me the word from the horses mouth... Cheers
Admin  
#2 Posted : 18 May 2007 08:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By garyh I used to manage a scaffold company. I have seen people use the rungs or the sides to get hand holds; we always removed the plastic coatings. For one thing the plastic eventually cracks and falls off; it then looks scruffy and poses a fire risk (we were scaffolding in a molten metal environment). It sounds like they want to keep the ladders clean! I would say, remove the covering. You could always ask the ladder supplier / manufacturer's opinion. Bear in mind also that most scaffolds are put up BY scaffolders for OTHERS to gain access. These people may use the rungs or the sides of the ladder.
Admin  
#3 Posted : 18 May 2007 09:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ian Mitchell Hi Gary. I had no doubt in my mind that the covering needed to come off (there were lots of other minor issues that suggested a general laziness that, on their own were quite minor, but as a group made the scaffold unsafe). I was just wondering if there is a 'right' way to climb the ladder (other than the three points of contact stuff). Cheers
Admin  
#4 Posted : 18 May 2007 10:07:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Doug Kelly From a company induction on a chemical site many moons ago, the safety manager (a truly inspirational guy as I remember) indicated the ladder stiles were to be used as hand-holds because you could not know what contamination had been introduced to the rungs from footwear. Made sense to me then, and still does. I would suggest the plastic should be removed unless given justification to the contrary.
Admin  
#5 Posted : 18 May 2007 11:58:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ron Hunter This is basic ladder safety stuff (irrespective of scaffold). Rungs are for feet, stiles are for hands - for the reasons Doug gives above.
Admin  
#6 Posted : 18 May 2007 12:56:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert K Lewis Ron Except if you are a firefighter - watch them!! Bob
Admin  
#7 Posted : 18 May 2007 15:54:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jim Walker This is the first time is 30 years work where I've heard of anyone suggest the use of the stile for handholds Always seemed obvious to me but then I was taught by a fire fighter that you used the rungs for handholds. Test it yourself: Climb up a few steps hold stiles let feet "disengage" from the rungs; what happens? You hit the floor and have hands full of splinters where the force of the drop slid your hands down the stile.. Now do it the correct way - using rungs for handholds -outcome you save yourself a fall.
Admin  
#8 Posted : 18 May 2007 16:27:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By garyh HSE publication INDG 402 safe use of ladders shows a guy on the front page climbing a ladder with his hands on the stiles. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf
Admin  
#9 Posted : 18 May 2007 17:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By steven bentham When climbing your feet take the majority of the weight with your legs doing the work and your hands assist or steady you (try pulling yourself up the ladder with your arms!!) If the rung breaks (as they can) then you have hopefully one or more hands on the higher rungs to stop you falling. If your hands are on the stills - you'll fall. Why not be safe and have one hand on the stile and the other on the rung! - only kidding.
Admin  
#10 Posted : 18 May 2007 23:18:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ron Hunter I now have an amusing image of you guys climbing a flight of stairs. Then again, I am easily amused!
Admin  
#11 Posted : 18 May 2007 23:57:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ken Taylor This is an old debate - probably dating from the invention of the ladder. The 'standard answer' always seemed to be something like: you hold the stiles as the rungs can be covered in mud, etc whereas firefighters turn up with squeaky clean ladders for one-off use prior to next cleaning and use the rungs as hand-holds for speed of access, better grip when providing rescue by ladder, etc. However, I've never seen an HSE definitive statement on the subject.
Admin  
#12 Posted : 19 May 2007 11:15:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Martyn Hendrie I would agree with Ken and certainly I hold the stiles when climbing a ladder (except on vertical ladders where more use of the arms is required) I can't say I have studied how others on site climb ladders but think most people do the same as I do. I will now look in future. Ladders should be structurally sound and in good condition so I don't give much credence to the "safer if the rung breaks" theory. Whatever "floats your boat"
Admin  
#13 Posted : 19 May 2007 11:51:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By TBC I'm ex-firefighter and it's holding on to the 'rounds' for me - 'rungs' to others. I would rather get dirty hands than land at the bottom of the ladders in pain. It takes a few moments to wash your hands - it can take a life of pain and suffering the other way. As you climb upwards one hand will always be gripping the 'rounds so if your feet slip - you can grip tight. Holding the 'strings' - 'stiles' to others can mean splinters or metal slivers in your hands. If the scaffolding team inspect their ladders regularly they should spot any damaged 'rounds'.
Admin  
#14 Posted : 19 May 2007 11:58:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By TBC Oh on the subject of the plastic covering get it off! It's not a new car or sofa that some keep the plastic on to protect it longer - that's from a bygone age. It's there to do a job of work not retain a resale value.
Admin  
#15 Posted : 19 May 2007 12:30:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By GT Ian, What TBC has told you is correct. If you miss your footing on climbing at speed and fire fighters are taught to climb at speed, lives depend on it, I appreciate we teach differently in other working conditions but the principle must be the same, then a grasp of the rounds will give greater support to your total body weight than if you are holding onto the strings. The only time I have heard a contradiction to this was when climbing or descending into a sewer access ladder without hand protection. Hope this helps all. GT
Admin  
#16 Posted : 19 May 2007 21:56:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Alan Woodage I agree with all the points for all the reason but one I cannot see is; when ascending or descending scaffold ladders, there is always the potential for another to step on your hands if they are above you and descending etc. I can hear you all scream more than one person on a ladder, be real it happens every day on every construction site. For this reason the stiles have always been my proffered, and try losing your footing holding onto a rung I don't believe the majority of people would be able to hold on, not only due to strength but also to reaction and panic / confusion causing the body to involuntarily reach up for a handhold.
Admin  
#17 Posted : 03 June 2007 19:30:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Bruce Wayne How can the ladders be fully inspected as required by WaH 2005 when covered in plastic?
Admin  
#18 Posted : 03 June 2007 20:11:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Crim I was taught to climb ladders as a young firefighter in Liverpool. Same hand same foot for balance and - yes hands hold the rounds (rungs). We used to use hook ladders that just had a long hook at the top, we hooked this over the window cill and had to rely on our balance to ensure the ladder didn't swing to the side so we didn't fall off. On reaching the top of the hook ladder we climbed into the window and placed the hook over the cill at the next level. Then we had to slide out of the window, onto the bottom of the ladder, using our backside for balance, and climb up to the next level. Exciting stuff! Sadly health and safety meant the hook ladder was withdrawn from service in spite of the many lives saved from rescues made using this type of ladder. No problem with dirty hands/rounds if you wear gloves.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.